User talk:Alagoric

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Welcome (2013 CE)[edit]

Hi, welcome to Traveller! Thanks for your edit to the Adie Stewart page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Tjoneslo (Talk) 23:12, January 6, 2013

Notes (2017 CE)[edit]

Distant Fringe (2017)[edit]

Thanks for your addition of the Distant Fringe articles. This looks like a really interesting setting with background and a good source for adventures.

Please let me know if there are any wiki setup you need to make these articles better for you. Tjoneslo (talk) 07:41, 19 June 2017 (EDT)

Notes (2017)[edit]

Alagoric AKA Adie, I love your stuff. Thank you. Josh has already uploaded it to TravMap.
Thomas, when we get the full set from Josh, we can build it out using the wiki utilities.
It is found rimward (galactic south) of Solomani space.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 23:05, 19 June 2017 (EDT)

Rename pages by moving them (2017)[edit]

It is a request of the wiki that if you need to rename an article, like Futhun (world) to Fethun (world), please use the move page function. You can find it in the menu at the top of the articles, under the More option. This request has several advantages for everyone; it keeps the page history with the page, it moves the talk pages and sub pages for you so you don't forget them, and creates the redirect pages automatically. Thanks Tjoneslo (talk) 07:07, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

Thank you, didn't know about that. Shall do.

Alagoric (talk) 12:16, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

Page Entry (2017)[edit]

Adie, thanks so much for your hard work entering worlds in Antares Sector.

Let's chat later and I'll show you some tricks and strategies to get things done quickly.
Here's the layout page that I use to develop Antares: Antares Sector/layout data
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 03:12, 30 July 2017 (EDT)

Most kind, no problem, I was looking for some examples to follow re developing stuff - the Imperial coreward border was very much a random choice just to get a feel of layout etc. I was (genuinely) surprised to find so many blank Imperial worlds. Well, tackling something else builds up confidence and know-how, its good to have a bit of a change every now and again just to keep things fresh, plus it adds to the Wiki too. Hence the system data. Of course, I'm very happy to add, delete or change any entries as necessary or requested.

Thank you for the layout data, very useful. Also, your (many) templates are great, I'm getting the feel for them much more now, they're an excellent toolkit. My biggest problem with them is that there's such a plethora it is sometimes difficult to be sure of exactly which ones I should be using.

Thanks also for sorting the references etc. I'll implement that.

I think now my major problem is going to be my slightly o/c nature - I'll have a mindworm going if there are systems in Antares with no entry at all. Fortunately, I have both the time and the compulsion to get it done. Shall try and give you a shout later.

Alagoric (talk) 04:03, 30 July 2017 (EDT)
About 80% of the Imperial worlds are blank entries. This is Maksim's work to encourage people to contribute. The Spinward Marches Sector, Deneb Sector, and Dagudashaag Sector have all the worlds populated with content. I also recommend the Manual of Style/world and the other entries in the Manual of Style for layout of articles. Tjoneslo (talk) 07:54, 30 July 2017 (EDT)

Excellent, thank you. Exactly what I was after. It would be good to get that % down a good few points.
- Alagoric (talk) 08:47, 30 July 2017 (EDT)

I use a slightly different template and created most of them after Thomas modified them to his preference.
Human psychology dictates that few people will either start or end an entry ( cartons of milk), but many people will contribute to one if it's already there.
My strategy of making it easy for people to contribute keeps proving itself a good one, entry after entry. New users like you keep contributing and some users only like to contribute ceratain subjects such as economics, or military forces.
Again, I have this down to a solid practice. Instead of the one sector entered every three to four years, I get one or two sectors entered a month on average.
By content, Thomas has a very specific meaning which is at odds with almost all Traveller documents, which typically give a very sparse set of data, just a UWP and little else.
The Spinward Marches Sector, Deneb Sector, and Dagudashaag Sector are all exceptions with lots of data. Try finding an Aslan sector with lots of data or a Zhodani one... We start somewhere and work from there.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:37, 30 July 2017 (EDT)

League of Antares:

Template:World summary ImLa

Is it possible to set this up? Many thanks.

Alagoric (talk) 17:27, 30 July 2017 (EDT)
Done: Template:World summary ImLa Tjoneslo (talk) 17:45, 30 July 2017 (EDT)

Splendid, thankyou

Alagoric (talk) 18:11, 30 July 2017 (EDT)

Is it possible to set up a disambiguation page for:

Kuk/Voskhod (Vland 0402)
Kuk/Pelusium (Antares 0603)

Many thanks

Alagoric (talk) 05:37, 31 July 2017 (EDT)
Kuk (An 0603) (world) needs to be filled, the Kuk (world) disambiguation page is active. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:45, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

Thankyou, on it.

Alagoric (talk) 06:50, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

Quick question, what's the score with placeholders? At the moment I'm leaving them but if its ok to expand the basic data I'll cheerfully crack on with doing that. Cheers!

Alagoric (talk) 07:49, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

Yes, please expand them. Thomas doesn't like them a bit, but I use them quite successfully as development devices. I flout Thomas's rules in this area although I respect him and really appreciate his hard work. I also use them to mark for others to follow up. Please detail them and build them out into great articles, Adie.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:39, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

Yes, please expand them. I have an irrational dislike of the words "TBD", "Placeholder", and the phrase "No information available". Thank you for all your hard work. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:00, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

Is it possible to get another disambiguation? The latest one is:

Shur/Urgusap (Antares 0535)
Shur/Thorstone (Glimmerdrift Reaches 1209)

The Antares system has been set up as Shur (An 0535) (world) in advance.

Many thanks

Alagoric (talk) 05:31, 2 August 2017 (EDT)

Now to explain the steps to do this.
1) If there is an existing page, like the Glimmerdrift Reaches Shur, move it to the correct page name. As described above there is a move page function in the wiki, and you should move to the correct page name.
2) When moving pages it leaves behind a redirect in the original page Shur (world). You need to edit this page and remove the #REDIRECT directive and replace it with the {{Disambig}} template and the list of disambiguous worlds (like above).
See also Manual_of_Style#World_articles.

Thank you, shall do.

Alagoric (talk) 08:27, 2 August 2017 (EDT)

Trade Map Generator & 500 World Limits (2017)[edit]

Hi, I've finished the worlds for Antares sector. I'm pretty sure I did all 554 but the count on the "World Listing" section of the Antares Sector page stopped at 496, so I'm not certain. Also, just worth noting, the "Subsector Summary" section of the Antares Sector page shows Domain of Sol rather than Domain of Antares.

Thank you for your patience and help while I was doing this, really good learning curve,

Alagoric (talk) 12:01, 6 August 2017 (EDT)

There is a limitation in the Template:SectorWorlds2 which limits the query to 500 entries. This is a system limitation in the underlying Dynamic List Plugin. You can try using Template:SectorWorlds3, which does a paged list of the worlds.
The Subector summary using the "Domain of Sol" is a know bug with the Trade Map generator which creates and updates these summaries. I've fixed this for the next generation run. Tjoneslo (talk) 12:57, 6 August 2017 (EDT)

Thank you for the info, appreciated and interesting to know.

Alagoric (talk) 13:44, 6 August 2017 (EDT)

Thomas, when do you plan to run the Trade Map generator next?

By the way, there is a bug in Template:SectorWorlds3, and I am seeing it not display any worlds on the pages where it was implemented.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:34, 6 August 2017 (EDT)

I fixed the SectorWorlds3 template to now work correctly. We should use that instead of SectorWorlds2 in areas (like Antares) with more than 475 or so worlds. Tjoneslo (talk) 00:10, 7 August 2017 (EDT) Tjoneslo (talk) 00:10, 7 August 2017 (EDT)

OK. I'll check to see if it is working and implement.

Thank you very much.
The previous version added an extra world for each page of worlds so we'd regularly be two or three worlds off.
The current SectorWorlds3 is adding 4 worlds to the count. 558 instead of 554.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:16, 7 August 2017 (EDT)

Star System tags (2017)[edit]

Adie, if you get a chance, build solar system tags into the worlds that you are inputting.

Data here: [[1]]
  • |Binary Star System
  • |Trinary Star System
  • |Quaternary Star System
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 21:15, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

No problem, included. Thanks for the update.

in the same vein, whats the difference / correct usage for the entries

  • |class =
  • |trade =

and how does this tie in with the

  • { { World summary |name= <NAME>|trade=<CODES>} } entry?

I'd prefer to get it right before I start slapping data into random locations and cause others more work.

Alagoric (talk) 01:31, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

One quick technical question:

some worlds can have multiple options for the trade entry. Examples might be poor hell worlds or ice-capped vacuum worlds. I think I'm right in saying that trade can only have one entry, so which one should take precedence? I'm guessing the more immediately hazardous it is, the higher up the list it goes - a poor hell world is best listed as He rather than Po (the razorshard storms will get you long before you die of malnutrition...) Would appreciate any thoughts or guidance.
Alagoric (talk) 06:22, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

The class parameter is for note taking, it doesn't have any affect on the output of the Template:UWP template. The trade parameter setting changes the color of the background of the text used for the name of the world.
The StellarDataQuery template data is generated by the Trade Map Generator code to extract the pcode (Planetary code). If there are multiple, it uses the simple pattern of alphabetical order. "He" is used over "Po" simply because the code comes first in alphabetical order.
Oh, and Hellworld has a tainted atmosphere and 20% or less surface water. And a poor world has very thin or thin atmosphere and 30% or less surface water. So the two together have a very thin tainted or thin tainted atmosphere and 20% or less surface water. So an unpleasant place to live, but not quite as dramatic as the trade classification summaries make it out to be.
Tjoneslo (talk) 06:53, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

Thankyou sir, that explains it. You know, "crappy air and a bit dry" just isn't so inspiring.

Alagoric (talk) 07:01, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

Well, true. But Traveller never defined "Taint" beyond "you don't want to breath it". So it could be a simple lack of oxygen or imply a microscopic silicon lifeform which turns the victims into a rage-fueled killing machine while it petrifies their internal organs. It was always supposed to be a signal that visitors will need their filter/compressor masks and don't count on ocean refueling. It's part of the reason I have an allergic reaction to "No information yet available". Tjoneslo (talk) 07:32, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

Psychodust, totally splendid. And yeah I know what you mean.

Just to follow up, and to be sure I understand how it works:

  • No appropriate codes - leave it blank (it defaults to green (equivalent to Ga))
  • More than one appropriate code - go for the one with the lowest alphabetical listing, coz that's the one that'll get used anyway. When I was mucking around with it to see how it worked, entering more than one code appears to cause it to display as green - this was the basic reason why I was asking in the first place.
Rather like yourself I don't like blank entries. Can I force the default in "blank" trade code systems by putting in Ga, even though that code isn't in the system's trade codes and it defaults to it anyway? Sort of "nail it down", as it were. Over-zealous? Bad practice? Just curious.

Apologies for my being a bit of an idiot over this but I'd prefer to get it right. Thanks again for your advice and help.

Alagoric (talk) 08:05, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

There are two issues here. First is the planetary trade classification (e.g. 'As', 'Ga', etc) don't cover all the worlds. There really is a "Default" planetary trade classification, which is blank. So I don't mind the parameter being blank because it is a "default" specifier. I really should have a different color for the "Ga" code and the "Default" (i.e. blank) code, but I couldn't decide on a color. Suggestions welcome.
Second is the Template coding just uses an exact text match on the parameter to decide the background color. So if you put in something it doesn't recognize, it uses the default green. It assumes the template coder (i.e. you) are careful enough to encode the parameter correctly.
I hope that answers your questions. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:21, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

Antares Sector (2017)[edit]

I am not sure that Antares is done.

I don't see either 500 or 554 worlds complete. I've cleared caches and I don't see any change.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:36, 6 August 2017 (EDT)

If you go through each of the subsectors, the SectorWorlds2 template shows the same number as the generated subsector summary data. So yes, it's complete. Except for the DPL failures. Tjoneslo (talk) 23:55, 6 August 2017 (EDT)

Adie and I just chatted, went through the subsectors and verified, Thomas.

Thank you.
Mendan and Meshan are next if you want to help with the citations. Edit them to the preferred format that you like.
I have Lishun on the side, but am prioritizing helping Adie complete his ("our") work.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:05, 7 August 2017 (EDT)

Trade map updates[edit]

I've been working with fixing a few bugs for the Trade Map generator and ran it for the Halcyon Sector and the Far Home Sector. This process created trade maps for both sectors, generated the sector and subsector summaries. There is more data if you are interested in seeing it posted.

The Farian Subsector is listed in TravellerMap sector data as 'Farin. Which is the correct spelling? You may need to update the TravellerMap data to match.

Let me know if I've done anything wildly wrong or if things could be corrected. Tjoneslo (talk) 17:18, 12 August 2017 (EDT)

Thank you so much sir, really interesting and excellent work, I very much appreciate the effort. I'm definitely interested in seeing everything posted. Thank you for the heads-up on the subsector name, I'll make sure its sorted as soon as possible: it should be Farin btw. Don't think there's anything too wrong tbh.

Alagoric (talk) 02:46, 13 August 2017 (EDT)

It's neat to watch these things happen.

Thanks Thomas and Alagoric for making such cool sci-fi happen!
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:21, 13 August 2017 (EDT)

Moved Information I[edit]

Trade Code Entries for standard UWP Template (2017)[edit]

These three areas are used as follows:

  • |class = Ag Ga Ri / Tp
  • |trade = ga
  • |climate = Tp
Class is used for the entire sequence as at Trade Classification and: [[2]]
Trade is a lower case two letter TC as explained at: Template:UWP
Climate used TC's intended for climate such as: Climate
Tp = Temperate World
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:16, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

Apologies didn't spot this until just now (I messaged earlier as it was playing on my mind). Shall have a good look at this and make sure it is implemented. Much appreciated.

Alagoric (talk) 02:34, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

No worries. It took guys like Thomas and I awhile to get the hang of this so please just know that you are very much appreciated.

In fact, I still consider myself to be getting the hang of it.
Let's chat soon on the telly and discuss strategies. I have a few that might help you.
Pretty soon, you will join the wiki sector club, the very exclusive club for individuals who have built out an entire sector or more for Traveller.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:24, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

Sophont Data Template (2017)[edit]

(Double brace then SophontData |name = |canon = |caption = |code = |extinct = |footnote = |home = |image = |multi = |ref = |size = |status = |type = |weight =

Trade Codes and Base Codes (2017)[edit]

Use page on edit function to see code, Adie:

World summary comment|trade=Ab}} Data Respository World summary comment|trade=An}} Ancients [[Category: Worlds with an Ancient Site World summary comment|trade=Ax}} Rosette World summary comment|trade=Co}} Cold World summary comment|trade=Cp}} Subsector capital World summary comment|trade=Cs}} Sector capital World summary comment|trade=Cx}} Capital of an interstellar empire World summary comment|trade=Da}} -Amber zone Danger = amber zone World summary comment|trade=Di}} Die-back (Ruins) World summary comment|trade=Fo}} - Red zone Forbidden = red zone World summary comment|trade=Fr}} Frozen World summary comment|trade=Hn}} Hiver Normal World summary comment|trade=Ho}} Hot climate World summary comment|trade=Hp}} Hiver prime World summary comment|trade=Ht}} High-tech (14+) World summary comment|trade=Lk}} Tidally-locked without a true twilight zone - Sa World summary comment|trade=Lt}} Low-tech (1-5)Mong (1-6)Chak World summary comment|trade=Tp}} Temperate climate World summary comment|trade=Tr}} Tropical climate World summary comment|trade=Tu}} World summary comment|trade=Tz}} Tidally-locked with a twilight zone - MW World summary comment|trade=Mr}} Military rule World summary comment|trade=Nh}} World summary comment|trade=Px}} Prison Camp / Penal Colony / Exile Colony World summary comment|trade=Pz}} Amber zone Puzzle = amber zone World summary comment|trade=Re}} Reserve world World summary comment|trade=Rs}} Research station [[Category: Imperial Research Station [[Category: Institutions [[Category: Science Category: Worlds with a research station World summary comment|trade=Sa}} Satellite world World summary comment|trade=St}} World summary comment|trade=Un}} (Zho) unabsorbed World summary bases|bases=C}} Vargr Corsair Base World summary bases|bases=CK}} Vargr corsair plus naval World summary bases|bases=D}} Imperial Depot World summary bases|bases=E}} Hiver embassy World summary bases|bases=K}} Non-imperial navy base World summary bases|bases=KM}} Non-Imp ground plus space World summary bases|bases=M}} Non-imperial army base World summary bases|bases=N}} Imperial navy base [[Category: Naval Base worlds World summary bases|bases=NS}} [[Category: Naval Base worlds [[Category: Scout Base worlds World summary bases|bases=NW}} Imp Nav plus Imp Way World summary bases|bases=O}} K'kree naval outpost World summary bases|bases=R}} Aslan clan base World summary bases|bases=RT}} Aslan clan plus Aslan Tlaukhu World summary bases|bases=S}} Imperial scout base [[Category: Scout Base worlds World summary bases|bases=T}} Aslan Tlaukhu base World summary bases|bases=V}} Non-imp scout base = Explorer base World summary bases|bases=W}} Imperial way Station

I have come across the base combination of CM - Corsair base plus Non-Imperial army base (Meshan 1401). If this isn't an error is it possible to add it to the base types.

Alagoric (talk) 07:51, 7 August 2017 (EDT)
Done. Are you sure you want all this stuff on your user page? Tjoneslo (talk) 08:19, 7 August 2017 (EDT)

Thank you. Yep shall move it ... eventually. At the moment it's super convenient to find tho, so will do that at some point in the future. Definitely.

Alagoric (talk) 08:22, 9 August 2017 (EDT)

Star System Codes (2017)[edit]

Adie, these are the codes for the four most common kinds of stellar systems:

  • Just add the other line to the tag at the bottom, usually LE (canon) or LEN (non-canon).

Binary Solar System[edit]

TBD Binary Star System
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Primary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Secondary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7

|Binary Star System

Trinary Solar System[edit]

TBD Trinary Star System
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Primary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Secondary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Tertiary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7

|Trinary Star System

Quaternary Solar System[edit]

TBD Quaternary Star System
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Primary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Secondary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Tertiary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7
Star Name Hierarchy Category Mass (Sol) Temp (K) Luminosity (Sol)

G3 V

Quaternary Main Sequence 0.98 4900 - 5800 0.886
Unit Diameter Min Distance Hab Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.00891 0.07807 0.75 - 1.22 0.891 8.91
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7

|Quaternary Star System

Subsector & Sector Templates (2017)[edit]

Maksim-Smelchak/layout templates6

Sath Alliance Military (2017)[edit]

Ronald B. Kline, Jr. (talk) 19:56, 29 August 2017 (EDT)What do I need to fix, what is wrong, what did I leave out? Let me know, thanks

We'll get it sorted, not a problem. Really enjoying the content btw, good stuff. I've been working on the Sath worlds and Factions - I'll send you the relevant background soon. Thx again sir.

21:00, 29 August 2017 (EDT)

Mainworld Data (2017)[edit]

I noticed you are adding a static, if incomplete, block of text to several world articles. I can turn that into a template, so you can just set the parameters: {{Mainworld data |orbiralAU=XX |orbitalDays=XX |orbitalHours=XX |rotationHours=XX <and so on>}}

Would that be of interest? Tjoneslo (talk) 07:02, 30 December 2017 (EST)

Hi Tjoneslo, thank you for the kind offer, that would be really useful.

I've been evolving the way star system / mainworld data works on the page - I'll cheerfully admit to being strongly influenced by Pilots Guide to Drexilthar Subsector in this. Based on T5 of course, but drawing heavily on LBB 6, WBH and other sources too.

The premise I'm trying to stick to is that the data is basically "MOARN" but (hopefully) still gives a feeling of depth and detail. I've also tried to be mindful of the fact that it should be relevant in some way to playing the game. In terms of on-page style and layout I think I'm pretty much there, and if you are happy with the sort of finished layout I'm producing, a template to facilitate this would be absolutely splendid.

Again thanks, your input is really appreciated.

Alagoric (talk) 07:57, 30 December 2017 (EST)
Template:Mainworld data : Let me know what you think. We can always tweak this. The advantage of templates for this is when we come up with better text or add new parameters, all the articles get updated. Tjoneslo (talk) 10:09, 30 December 2017 (EST)

Thank you sir, looks really good. Shall experiment with how it works and report back.

Alagoric (talk) 11:30, 30 December 2017 (EST)

Hi Tjoneslo, I get the principle (it works the same way as stellar data boxes) but could you give me a few pointers on how to correctly call the template into the document, if you see what I mean - I'd prefer to get it right and your guidance would be much appreciated before I commit random acts of creation. Cheers!

Alagoric (talk) 11:57, 30 December 2017 (EST)

Eigh (world) and Ishler (world)‎‎ are two worked examples of the template in action. The basic idea is to copy the template outline from the template documentation section into the article, then fill the values. Some of the values (like orbital distance in km, or G forces) can be calculated and so I do.
I've tried to select parameter names which should be more descriptive than the UWP template ones. If you have more specific questions or suggestions I would be happy to help further. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:09, 30 December 2017 (EST)

Thank you so much sir, very much appreciated. Really good stuff and cheers for setting up the examples.

A couple of thoughts occur. The template as provided is absolutely splendid for Terran-type worlds, but begins to break down when we get to things like planetoid belts, or vacuum or exotic atmospheres, especially where the gas mix isn't nitrogen-oxygen.

I'm wondering if it might be worth approaching each UWP code as a separate template, which would allow a mix-and-match approach as appropriate. A vacuum world, for example, has no need for data regarding climatic effects, and having a list of atmospheric gases listed as 0% somehow just doesn't seem elegant.

Also, having separate templates for each UWP code allows notes to be tacked on directly after the closing double braces, giving the author the opportunity to add additional details and comments while maintaining the overall structure and appearance of the document. Gives a lot of flexibility and also eliminates the need for increasingly complex catch-all templates.

Re individual templates, if the idea is practical:

The size code would be the most fundamental and should contain both orbital details (orbital distance in AU, orbital period etc) as well as the world's physical details (size, axial tilt, density, gravity etc). We should also consider making allowances for special cases such as a high orbital eccentricity, which could radically adjust not just mean temperatures but even things such as the atmospheric composition - in an extreme case, the atmosphere could freeze to the surface every couple of months or years, by way of an example.

I'm wondering if we also ought to look at planetoid belts as a special case, as much of the UWP-derived data is redundant. In terms of the data I provide I've been using the layout and details of the Tarsus system from GDW's Beltstrike as my prototype. Belt depth, composition (carbonaceous, nickel-iron, icy etc), typical belt object size, and the nature of the primary inhabited body are the main elements. Also, I only provide orbital data etc for the belt's "main body", and such data generally occurs "out of sequence" in terms of the layout. Also we should be mindful of little finesses, such as inner system belts - and there are a few out there - are fairly unlikely to have icy bodies within them.

Not quite so sure about tackling atmosphere, its properly tricky getting it right.

Because of the very individual natures of trace, exotic, insidious, and corrosive atmospheres, would it perhaps be possible to allow the component atmospheric gases to be defined? Or would it perhaps be better to allow the data to be inputted manually, following an agreed format maybe?

We definitely need to work out how to include atmospheric taints – this is, in my experience, often the first thing players look at after Starport and TL. The nature of the taint should definitely be at least mentioned.

My personal go-to choices for taints are radiation (typically from stellar proximity, absence of a significant magnetosphere, parent gas giant worlds or other more local sources) or an undesirable percentage (either high or low) of atmospheric oxygen. Easiest to justify to be honest, and I suspect the most likely natural causes of a taint in real life too. And having them as "prime suspects" also serves to make worlds with other stranger taints that little bit more unique and memorable. But that's just my take on it.

I'm still not quite sure how it could be easily done.

For hydrographics, as a basic descriptor I've been using the terms oceans, seas and lakes. Its arbitrary I know, but if the hydrographic percentage is 50% or more I've been calling them oceans, for 10%-49% I've been describing as them as seas, and less than 10% I've been calling lakes. Really its only colour, but it seems to work quite well. As climate will dramatically impact on the hydrographics, with perhaps a lower ratio of liquid water to ice than the UWP might suggest, is there a means to include this (ie define percentages of ice and water) should it be necessary.

Tidal ranges are pretty much guesswork to be honest. I tend to go with close to the star or a big (or close) moon, bigger tides. Tides are mighty complex - as François Arago famously said, studying tides is the tomb of human curiosity – so I've deliberately steered away from too much detail (tidal acceleration vectors, water pressure differentials etc). Make it look sensible and plausible – honestly, I'd argue that's as much as you really need for a game.

Mean tidal ranges I keep low - typically (but not exclusively) less than a meter – earths tidal range is around 0.6m. Its the geography, for the most part, that causes really massive tidal effects, like in the Bay of Fundy in Canada.

What do you think? Apologies if its not very clear.

Alagoric (talk) 07:28, 31 December 2017 (EST)

I'm going to re-iterate your ideas back at you in a different format to see if I understand them correctly.

There are two basic types of worlds: terran-norm (Tn) and exotic (Ex). Terra-norm are size 4-A, atmosphere 4-9, and hydrographic 0-A. Exotic worlds are ones outside of that, i.e. if it's not a terra-norm world it's an exotic world. The template we have works well for the terra-norm worlds, but not as well for the exotic worlds.

For the Tn worlds the descriptions used for the hydrographics: "surface is covered in seas of" should be tweaked by the hydrographic percentage. 50%+ is oceans, 49%-10% is seas, 9% or less should be lakes.

There should be a parameter to describe atmospheric taint. Traveller assumes, and science back this up, that the terra-norm worlds are life bearing. The only way you get significant percentages of oxygen in the atmosphere is to have a process (i.e photosynthesis) constantly replenishing it. So adding "biologicals" (e.g. micro-organisms, pollen, dander, or other allergens) to the list of taints is not unusual.

For tides, you should add GURPS Traveller: First In to your list of reading materials. This book takes WBH and refines the details. There are better formulas, even if it mostly produces airless rockball worlds. This may have a description of tides.

For the Tn worlds these kinds of changes to the template are straight forward.

For the exotic worlds, these can be divided into three types: Planetoid belts, vacuum worlds, and non-oxygen atmospheres.

For non-oxygen atmosphere (atmosphere type A, B, C, or F), there may be hydrographics of tainted water, or something not water at all, and weather. So pretty similar to the terra-norm worlds, but with slight details differences.

For vacuum worlds (atmosphere type 0-3), there won't be atmospheric details, hydrographics (maybe ice), or weather.

For planetoid belts, we'll have a vacuum atmosphere, and a significantly different description.

There are two approaches for templates. One is to have one template, with many parameters including the UWP, which has different basic blocks of text, selected by the values in the UWP, and use the parameters as needed to fill them out. This makes for a complex template and a lot of parameters which may or may not be needed.

The other is to have four templates: Mainworld Tn, Mainworld Ea, Mainworld Va, Mainworld As, and have the authors select the correct one. There are fewer, and different, parameters for each template.

This should cover about 99.99% of the cases. Exceptions, like Dinom (world), or other much weirder cases should be thought about when we come across them.

I guess the question for you now is, do you like the idea of one master template, or four?

- Tjoneslo (talk) 09:38, 31 December 2017 (EST)

Looks great, guys. Great work. Please feel free to experiment with these ideas regardless of canon. One of the missions of the wiki is development independent of canon.

  • Also, thank you very much for both of your collective bodies of hard work.
  • I would love to create or see created a more detailed and clear idea of what the atmospheres are.
  • I have already been compiling a list of the different kinds of taints and explanations for various worlds and atmosphere types.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:53, 31 December 2017 (EST)

Thx chaps, interesting and good points.

I personally like the idea of four different templates. I do like documents to look tidy – I kinda hate having blank bits in paragraphs – and multiple templates could sidestep this. But I did page layout and editing for a living, so that's probably an ingrained mindset more than anything. I do feel it gives more flexibility and allows us to play around with stuff a little more. I'll happily bow to your judgment though.

Re atmospheric oxygen, you might find this interesting:

It is possible to produce oxygen by breaking up carbon dioxide with high-energy ultraviolet light, which could help explain how Earth's early atmosphere formed. Though the amount of oxygen created is pretty small, it is enough to show that it is possible to produce oxygen from CO2 by a non-biological process. A similar process could also break down water vapor within an atmosphere into oxygen and hydrogen. Potential sources of atmospheric oxygen for marginal type 2 or 3 atmospheres perhaps?

Abiotic oxygen can also be produced by the photocatalytic reaction of titanium dioxide (TiO2, Titania), typically from surface minerals such as ilmenite.

For a planet with an environment similar to the sun-Earth system, continuous photocatalytic reaction of titanium dioxide on about 0.05 % of the planetary surface *could* produce the amount of oxygen found in the current Earth's atmosphere. The process could possibly provide oxygen for habitable planets around other types of host stars with various masses and temperatures.

Even in the least efficient production case of a low-temperature star, the photocatalytic reaction of the titanium dioxide on about 3 percent of the planetary surface could maintain this level of atmospheric oxygen through abiotic processes. In other words, it is possible that a habitable extrasolar planet could maintain an atmosphere with Earth-like oxygen, even without organisms to perform photosynthesis.

This process is most likely to occur around young active stars, flare stars, and stellar bodies that have higher levels of UV output. Once some kind of equilibrium is reached (if one can be) there could be a significant % of free atmospheric oxygen, floating around without anything much to react with.

I have got some scholarly articles about it somewhere but I can't find them at the moment. The following link is about the only reference I can currently track down:

Honestly I dunno, it seems a bit fragile and I can't help thinking there's a big chemical problem somewhere in there. And where does the (mostly) inert component of the atmosphere (ie nitrogen) come from? But, in theory, it should work. Plausible enough for sci-fi do you think? Good enough to have oxygen-rich atmospheres without native life? Its not my idea or anything, I just figured you'd be interested.

Alagoric (talk) 12:09, 31 December 2017 (EST)


That was an interesting read. The challenge with the titania approach is you need to have a natural balance between the TiO2 area catalyzing water into oxygen. Too low and the known oxygen sinks (Fe, carbon) suck down all the oxygen, leaving you with a exotic atmosphere. Too much and you either end up with a toxic, and inflammable atmosphere or end up catalyzing all the water leaving a desert planet.

Nitrogen, because it is so inert, would naturally form a significant part of any atmosphere. The various nitrogen compounds, ammonia especially, and at the levels of UV that would drive the titania reactions, would decompose rapidly into N2.

Biological oxygen generation has a built in regulator, in that if the O2 gets too high, it starts to burn the generators. With the titania reaction, there is no feedback to limit the process. If you get a 50/50 oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere and a single spark you may end up with a world-wide firestorm as the oxygen and nitrogen combine to nitrous oxide, or any of the other N/O combinations. It would make for an interesting, if rare, world. The UV would break the N/O compounds back down into N2 and O2 eventually, and start the cycle over again. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:30, 31 December 2017 (EST)

Notes (2018 CE)[edit]

There is a discussion about your project (1018)[edit] Users have noticed and are discussing your Distant Fringe project. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:17, 24 October 2018 (EDT)

many thanks

- Alagoric (talk) 09:49, 24 October 2018 (EDT)

Mazel Tov!

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:00, 25 October 2018 (EDT)

Mongoose Traveller material in the wiki (2018)[edit]

What did Maksim tell you about the allowed material published by Mongoose Traveller? Tjoneslo (talk) 07:30, 30 December 2018 (EST)

Notes (2019 CE)[edit]

New InfoboxShip Template for review (2019)[edit]

Maksim and I put together a new Template:InfoboxShip2 for the ship articles. Since you are one of the primary ship designers, I'm asking for any feedback on the new template. Did we miss anything? Are there organizational parts we could have done better? Thanks Tjoneslo (talk) 16:03, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

Middle & High Passage passengers should be two different areas. They are not the same.

  • There should additionally be an area for Frozen Watch.
  • The canon column on ship pages is still not working the last I checked. See Fighter.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:04, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

Hi, been taking a good look and working thru converting one of Ron Kline's many (many) designs over to it. Looking really good, very comprehensive. Thank you for this, I'll get my head around it and work through the nuances. Cheers.

Alagoric (talk) 16:10, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

have tinkered with this one:


Can't seem to get designer to link to Ron's personal page. Ronald B. Kline, Jr. Any thoughts? Many thanks.

Alagoric (talk) 16:31, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

There is a comma in his name confusing the Template. It thinks you have entered two designers; Ron and Jr. Not the first time this has been Encountered. The joy of dealing with Names. Semicolon separated list might be a possibility. Tjoneslo (talk) 18:56, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

Take out the comma, Ron.

  • William Keith Jr. has the same issue.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:11, 3 June 2019 (EDT)

Excellent solve, many thanks.

  • Could you check out Canon. Entering "No" into the template generates "Published design", which just isn't right. Cheers.
- Alagoric (talk) 04:11, 3 June 2019 (EDT)

Yes, Maksim and I were discussing it on my talk page. Currently the "ref" parameter is for the published reference, and if the design isn’t published anywhere but the wiki, should be left blank. That will change the canon field to be "unpublished, non-canon design". If you know of any variation in values for the fields, please point me at them. Tjoneslo (talk) 05:33, 3 June 2019 (EDT)

Thank you, excellent!

- Alagoric (talk) 05:51, 3 June 2019 (EDT)

Traveller wiki editorial team[edit]

For the sources template at the end of articles, the decision was to stop adding the "Traveller wiki editorial team" as a source reference. It's noted in the text at the top of the box. If you are using templates, please update them. Thanks. The sector of data you are entering looks interesting, and we're hoping to see the background material as well. Tjoneslo (talk) 00:20, 11 May 2021 (EDT)

Thanks, appreciated sir. Alagoric (talk) 00:40, 11 May 2021 (EDT)

Mavuzog Sector[edit]

I just saw what you are doing with Mavuzog Sector, given the reputation Group One's material has in the Traveller community, I'm glad to see that a silk purse can be made out of a sow's ear. Do you think that's even possible for Theta Borealis itself? Graham2001 (talk) 20:54, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

Theta Borealis[edit]

Thanks for your reply. The updated 'Zerp' (Ducks quickly...) image is a definite improvement as was the additon of the Jansa as the 'powers behind the throne' in the Korsumug Empire, as for overhauling Theta Borealis sector, I'm sure some 'sensitive' improvements could be made, mostly in the form of adding a few more bases to places like the Trooles Confederation. I get the feeling the authors didn't put much thought into it when they put the sector together. I will be adding a paraphrase of the background for the Percavid Marches though having recently got my hands on a scan of the library data from Theta Borealis and I noticed it's missing from the Wiki. Graham2001 (talk) 23:58, 26 September 2021 (EDT)

Korsumug Main: Feedback[edit]

I like the article, I just wish the capital of the Trooles Confederation had also been marked on the map as they are also involved in 'out of state' military operations along the main. Graham2001 (talk) 19:41, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

Bloody good shout mate, thank you. Updated and implemented: Isbelra is marked in blue. I've also added Jelmirt, the capital (...or possibly former capital, depending on how the Jaibok occupation washes out...) of the Percavid Marches, marked in yellow. Seemed appropriate to include the significant other (system, that is) to complete the set of important worlds lying on (or involved in looting and ransacking) the Main. Eye to the bigger picture and all that.

Korsumug Main Systems 2.png

Alagoric (talk) 03:56, 13 October 2021 (EDT)

Korsumug Empire: Cultural Jaibok?[edit]

Just a thought, while the vast majority of humans in the Korsumug Empire are slaves, there is the possibility, however unlikely that some humans (Or groups of humans.) have chosen to adopt Jaibok cultural mores and risen higher in Korsumug society. After all there are reputedly clans of 'Cultural Aslan' within the Heirate. Graham2001 (talk) 01:10, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

Theta Borealis: Misjumped K'Kree?[edit]

As I was putting together my notes for the Percavid Marches on just who may be backing the 'Rebel Alliance', I spotted Bur'vr'di'klr (Tb2112), that name sounds K'Kree to me. Now the only way K'Kree could be found this far to Spinward would be by a serious misjump and going by the numbers in the UWP this batch seem to have 'mellowed out' somewhat compared to those back in the 2000 Worlds. The sheer size of the population suggests both a large ship and that whatever happened it happened many years ago. Your thoughts? Graham2001 (talk) 05:10, 16 October 2021 (EDT)

Wow, now that's an interesting one! It does look very K'kree indeed. There are a few letters and combos in the name that can't turn up in K'kree language generation (D and V are noticeably absent from the K'kree language tables) but it is pretty darn close!

At nearly 500 parsecs between Bur'vr'di'klr and the closest K'kree world a misjump seems a bit of a stretch, with the ship going exponentially further than anything canon has ever noted. There's also a strong argument to say that if they had misjumped, they'd instinctually head back to trailing, to the herd and safety in vast numbers - it would take a decent bout of explaining to justify how come they're voluntarily choosing to head deeper into deadly Carnivore space. But, what if they were exiles or missionaries or fringe lunatics of some kind, millions of them, deliberately heading spinward? With enough individuals to counter that instinctive panic caused by solitude, and enough equipment, materials, and supplies to found their new home. Their new homeworld has an infrastructure rating of F (very comprehensive) indicating that they've been there long enough to build a ton of roads, power lines, aqueducts, communications facilities, and all the rest of it.

Also, why that world? It has a lower gravity, a tainted atmosphere, and is notably wetter than Kirur, the K'kree homeworld, and has a deeply unpleasant primary star (unless the mainworld goes around the K-type companion and that is nice and distant from the big angry unstable bright giant, say a few hundred AU or more...). Taspar (Tb2115), for example, just three parsecs rimward, is a far closer parallel to Kirur (same size, denser but untainted atmosphere, similar hydrosphere, a tolerable primary star, and a minimal population to object to settlement). Assuming these hypothetical K'kree favour the conditions on Kirur of course. Maybe they originated on a more marginal world and the planet not being Kirur-like doesn't matter, or maybe inconvenience and discomfort are part of their characteristic weirdness. Or maybe their intention wasn't to stop there at all, but circumstances forced it.

Aldo, their being somehow separate might also explain those language differences - they use sounds that the K'kree don't generally use, rather like the African Xosha language on dear ol Terra using clicks, as a useful parallel.

Alagoric (talk) 06:42, 16 October 2021 (EDT)

The misjump might have damaged the ship forcing them to set down on the first available world, given they can support a naval base separate from their main starport suggests they've prospered where they found themselves, the fact they have not gone out G'naak hunting again suggests there has been a cultural and possibly a linguistic shift. Graham2001 (talk) 09:26, 16 October 2021 (EDT)

The Oujda Trade - Feedback and Ideas[edit]

I like addition of the Oujda Trade (aka the 'Oujda Run'). Good job spotting that world, the only other 'Industrial' system near the Confederation is Kathol (TB1608) a TL8 system which actually is on the 'Continental Lines' route provided by the Group One people. I dare say that Continental Lines has a stake in the Oujda Trade, even if it's not marked on the map.

Something that immediatly popped into my head when I looked at the route is 'What is Medkin (TB2202) doing about this?'. Whoever is running that planet must be quite annoyed at missing out on the increased traffic. I an see them trying to upgrade their spaceport to Class D in the shortest possible period of time.

Now onto Oudja itself, I think I've identified all the 'O:' systems in Banderhue SubSector, they are Mosule (TB2610), Crexel (TB3001), Jeilif (TB3203). All of these are probably subject to Oujda and will be on trade routes feeding Oujda's industry.

It also stimulates thoughts about Galores (TB1204) and Perx (TB1102), if you look at the notes I'd written for the Trooles Confederation I'd identified both as possible sites for the Confederation's first naval base. Looking at the UWP for Galores and the extended stats, I'm even more convinced that it's where the Confederation is making a major effort to build up an industrial system located inside the Confederation's borders, even if the local TL is well off Oujda's according to the official stats. It also suggests that the Confederation may be buying more than just weapons and ships (or ship components) from Oujda.

Also in those notes I speculated on the Confederation's diplomatic efforts, pointing out the 'arc' of systems between Kullen (TB1709) to Gadmoth (TB2101) as being a target for serious diplomatic effort with the objective of bringing some of those systems into the Confederation. It's now clear those efforts would be concentrated at the coreward end of this 'arc' if most of the trade is going via the Nedric-Brekot-Daliol-Sanus-Falmot-Oujda route. Pautho (TB1506) & Forgald (TB1706) are at the end of an alternate J2 route that from Forgald runs Hevad-Pacadia-Garatol-Daloil-Sanus-Falmout-Oujda. However that route runs closer to the main and possible Jaibok interference. Graham2001 (talk) 08:49, 18 October 2021 (EDT)

I've identified another of Oujda's major trading partners, Granian (TB2605), a TL 'B' Ag world reachable from Oujda either directly via Jump 3 or via Indmaea (TB2604) for Jump 2 ships and it's probably the main source of food for Oujda. Granian may also be the site of a major Aaleem Consolidated Factors facility, the system gives access to the Korsumug Main via Kansel (TB2407) for Jump 3 ships and from Kansel ACF Jump 3 ships can access the Garatol - Hevad route to Forgald and Pautho. Also from there jump 3 ships can go direct to Tamatave and then from there direct to Tamatave's colony at Monsule. Graham2001 (talk) 07:16, 20 October 2021 (EDT)

I only have the PDF version of Traveller 5. I've updated Talk:Oujda (world) with notes on Oujda, Crexle & Granian. I hope they prove useful.Graham2001 (talk)

Aaleem Consolidated Factors - An Oujdan shipping line[edit]

I've put up the start of the Aaleem Consolidated Factors page. Sadly having got the basic history, now I'm trying to figure out just what type of ships they have and their major routes, although knowing that three systems are 'colonies' of Oujda does make some destinations easier to figure out. Also have to figure out what their major holdings outside Corporate HQ are. If you wish to join in detailing this company I've no problem with you doing so. Graham2001 (talk) 07:35, 19 October 2021 (EDT)

Awesome, excellent stuff. Would relish it.

Dunno if its of interest, but check out this page: Fringian Business Sectors (one of my own again). The links take you to a particular business sector like agriculture or industry or shipping, and within them you can find detailed workups of individual companies. Not all are done, but many are. One good example: Mooi & Belanis Heavy Haulage.

Having a template is always useful.

Meantime, a good foundational step would be getting the worlds of the Confederation set up - gonna focus on that today, fairly easy to achieve.

Alagoric (talk) 09:02, 19 October 2021 (EDT)

Thank's for the update to Aaleem Consolidated Factors. Might try and draw up their trade routes using Traveller Map (Fingers Crossed.). You can tell a lot about what types of ships a company has by their trade routes. In the case of Theta Borealis, Continental Lines has Jump 1 & Jump 2 Ships. Polygraham Shipping has at least one Jump 6 capable craft as does Baylor-Ator Lines, though where these companies got their hands on ships like that is a mystery. Graham2001 (talk) 11:03, 19 October 2021 (EDT)

Saw the latest update to Theta Borealis Sector and immediately tried to find both of the giants mentioned. I think one of them is the primary of Pacadia (TB2006). My first thought was 'tourist attraction'! Then again Theta Borealis Sector is not a place safe enough for outright 'space tourism', but I'm thinking that something along the lines of this might work, ships travelling outbound from Kansel on the Oujda - Granian - Kansel - Garatol - Hevad - Forgald - Pautho J3 route go back via the following route Pautho - Forgald - Pacadia - Gartol - Kansel - Granian - Oujda. Your thoughts?Graham2001 (talk) 19:22, 20 October 2021 (EDT)

The route map for the scheduled services Aaleem Consolidated Factors Ltd is up. I might submit the modified XML file to Joshua. Your thoughts?Graham2001 (talk) 20:51, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

Sapies & Zephor[edit]

I've managed to get my hands on a scan of this book. There are two races on Sapies, the Cygmo & the Mitzene. The first race are horse barbarians. The second are the TL-9 race and are the descendents of a crashed colony ship. For some reason only the Cygmo show up on the mainworld entry. If you want I'll upload the artwork.

I also have Zephor, while that system ended up in Theta Borealis, the intro says it takes place in the Xova II Sector, wherever that was...Graham2001 (talk) 09:09, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

Literally just updated the Sapies home system! Yeah, go for it! I've got copies of all the original Judges Guild books, electronic versions of the images, and full details (...such as they are...) on the various races in question - point being we're working from the same sources, which can't be a bad thing. We can update and correct data as we go, of course.

Alagoric (talk) 09:14, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

I'm checking the webbased sources on the Sapies page, the link points to a page on Daibei Sector. The other link Ross Mack also points to an unnamed world in Daibei Sector so I've removed those from the sources on that page. I've also rewritten the opening to better reflect what's in the Sapies booklet.

Now all that's needed is to figure out the actual TL of the Cygmo.Graham2001 (talk) 18:50, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

Official pictures for the Cygmo & Mitzene are up, personally the Mitzene picture gives the impression of a monkey rather than a member of a TL-9 society, but I'm sadly not an artist. Graham2001 (talk) 19:34, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

The update you've done looks really good. Currently trying to put together a single world for Theron to 'terminate' the liner route that runs diagonally trailing from Hertansi.Graham2001 (talk) 02:59, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

I was just looking at Banderhue Subsector and saw that the Mitzene are not showing up on the list of species inhabiting the sector. I'm not sure how to fix it though.Graham2001 (talk) 04:01, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for fixing the issue with Sapies. If you do decide to create your own pictures of Mitzene, Cygmo & Captutian, I look forward to them.Graham2001 (talk) 08:06, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

Nystalux needs an overhaul, if the sourcebook is anything to go by there are no humans on world. There is one extra gas giant (I'm forwarding a picture of that page to Joshua so hopefully we can get an update of Traveller map to reflect this.) Graham2001 (talk) 09:35, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

The sector level version of the sapients list also omits the Mitzene, I'm not sure how to update that part of the page. Could you explain.Graham2001 (talk) 17:05, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

I've made an update of the Attorn, the description of the Attorn in the Geptorem book describes them as being "...the same basic stock as terrans..." (e.g. a minor human race.), on the same page there is a picture of an amorphous blob with tentacles which may explain how they entered the wiki as Non-Human.Graham2001 (talk) 04:57, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

The Burugdi are not showing up on the 'identified sophont populations in Theta Borealis' listing. How do I get that to happen?Graham2001 (talk) 19:17, 3 November 2021 (EDT)

All of the text in the "Sector Summary: 1105" section is trancluded from Theta Borealis Sector/summary. This summary page is generated from the data on the Traveller Map site, and infrequently updated into the wiki. I suggest manually updating the summary page for now, but if you want to make this a permanent addition you will need to submit a change request to the T5SS list or to Traveller Map directly. Tjoneslo (talk) 19:34, 3 November 2021 (EDT)

Big Stars[edit]

For the Borealis Group

  • Pacadia (TB2006) (A0 III & F9 V)
  • Jeilif (TB3203) (F6 II)

Graham2001 (talk) 11:33, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

The Corelian Offset[edit]

Just something I realised, both Corelian & Ventura (Theta Borealis) Subsectors are cases where the Subsector is named for a feature or system in the next Subsector to spinward. Obviously there is a 'reason', but what could it be?Graham2001 (talk) 15:32, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

The other Theta Borealis shipping lines[edit]

Pages have been created for Continental Lines and Polygraham Shipping. I've put some thoughts on just what jump drives the two companies have fitted in their ships in the talk page for the article. The big question is who supplied Polygraham Shipping and Baylor-Ator Lines with Jump 6 spacecraft? Graham2001 (talk) 07:52, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Checked out the original source and it looks like there was some TL deflation done. Nithus, home of the Captutains used to be TL-F now it's TL-D.Graham2001 (talk) 10:25, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Re: The Jump 6 Ships, using the route mapper on Traveller Map it shows the 'optimum' J-6 routing from Sizhdriet to Hertansi (Where Baylor-Ator Lines bases it's J-6 fleet (both ships).) passes through the Haddox Association the stop point is a system with an 'E' class starport, but if that leg is jump 5 then they have the option of landing at a class 'C' port if they need to. The 'optimum' J-6 route to Conacus (TB1720) (Where I've located Polygraham Shippings maintenance base.) bypasses the Haddox Association but does pass through the Trooles Confederation with a stop point at Pautho (TB1506). That distance was one of the reason I put in the notion that it was not just ships that were purchased, but spare parts/maintenance training.

Theta Borealis is beginning to look like the perfect environment for Fenris class Q-ships and their associated Valkyrie class fighters, which IMHO I think were based off the Cylon fighters from BSG. Unfortunately I'm no good with stats transcriptions as both ships need to be converted to the current edition of High Guard.Graham2001 (talk) 20:29, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Pages now exist for all of the 'official' Theta Borealis shipping lines (Continental Lines, Baylor-Ator Lines & Polygraham Shipping), for some reason the 'World Listing' is not working for the Continental Lines and Baylor-Ator Lines pages. I'm considering working up a second 'non-official' line that operates in Bengalaz & Duhamel subsectors as there needs to be some reason for Baylor-Ator to not operate in those regions despite I suspect having ships capable of doing so. Graham2001 (talk) 06:32, 26 November 2021 (EST)

Category pages now exist for: and, but the 'World Listing' has still not updated for either. Not sure what I've done wrong. Graham2001 (talk) 19:26, 26 November 2021 (EST)

The template on the article page is cached. You need to purge the cache to get the template to update. I've gone through the three articles and done it. It should be correct now. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:56, 26 November 2021 (EST)
The Continental Lines worlds category needs to have a lower case 'w' for the word 'worlds'. Tjoneslo (talk) 23:02, 26 November 2021 (EST)

Industrial Systems in Theta Borealis[edit]

I've put together a list of the systems with the 'In' trade classifiction sorted by TL. Thought it might be useful for detaling the sector.

  • 2703 Oujda A421ACF-D He Hi In Na Po Pz { 4 } (E9G+5) [FEAJ] - - A 420 8 NaHu K8 IV
  • 2831 Jugartha A000958-D As Hi In Na Va { 4 } (E8G+4) [9D5D] - - - 821 12 NaHu K3 V

  • 0537 Quper B540A66-C De He Hi In Po O: { 4 } (E9F+3) [9E4B] - - - 520 9 NaHu K4 V M6 V M4 V
  • 2226 Niparoo A8A49B8-C Fl Hi In { 4 } (D8F+4) [9D5C] - K - 320 7 NaHu G9 V
  • 3122 Dennson A672A78-C He Hi In { 4 } (F9F+4) [AE5C] - - - 430 11 NaHu M1 V Dv
  • 1223 Jelmirt AAA6A8D-C Fl Hi In Cp Pz Jaib4 { 4 } (E9F+5) [EE9G] - - A 720 11 KoPm F6 V
  • 2112 Bur'vr'di'klr A675999-C Hi In { 4 } (G8F+5) [AD6D] - K - 823 14 NaXX G9 II K2 V (K'kree?)

  • 3035 Rorschach B5729AA-B He Hi In Pz { 4 } (E8F+5) [BD7D] - - A 521 12 NaHu K2 V K8 V D

  • 0419 Feleg B5969EJ-A Hi In Pz JaibW { 4 } (D8E+5) [EDAF] - K A 202 13 KoEm K5 V K7 V
  • 2014 Tepas AAA79AC-A Fl Hi In Pz { 4 } (E8E+5) [CD8D] - - A 530 9 NaHu F9 V
  • 2033 Saint-Beune B9A1AC7-A Fl He Hi In { 4 } (E9E+4) [AE5A] - - - 411 9 NaHu G1 V
  • 2729 Verstand B000977-A As Hi In Na Va { 4 } (E8E+4) [9D5A] - - - 812 12 NaHu F6 V

  • 1620 Xantype C4229BB-9 He Hi In Na Po Pz { 2 } (D8C+4) [BB7B] - - A 711 11 NaHu G1 V M3 V M5 V D
  • 0434 Obaroth C304AFD-9 Hi Ic In Va Pz { 2 } (G9C+5) [EC9D] - - A 613 13 NaHu K3 V D

  • 1608 Kathol C7A0975-8 He Hi In { 1 } (E8A-1) [7A36] - - - 630 11 NaHu F0 IV
  • 1311 Portine C7A8AAC-8 Fl Hi In Pz { 1 } (F9A+4) [DB8B] - - A 121 12 NaHu K1 V

  • 1630 Gurn D511988-7 Hi Ic In Na { 0 } (B89+1) [9957] - - - 713 8 NaHu F4 V
  • 1729 Jaches E4009AA-7 Hi In Na Va Pz { 0 } (B89+2) [B979] - - A 431 10 NaHu F1 V
  • 1732 Plustron B546ADD-7 Hi In Pz { 2 } (C9B+5) [EC9B] - M A 900 5 NaHu G1 V M1 V M1 V
  • 2433 Itenez D505998-7 Hi Ic In Va { 0 } (B89+1) [9957] - - - 611 7 NaHu F7 V

Very useful, thank you, the arrangement by tech level is extremely handy indeed.

Alagoric (talk) 09:21, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

War Rocket Able[edit]

RE: The manufacturer of this type of warship. I'm not that familiar with the Jetsons. Graham2001 (talk) 05:40, 26 October 2021 (EDT)

Kingdom of Peladon - Sorted by Tech Level[edit]

I've done an exercise for the Kingdom of Peladon similar to the one I did for industrial worlds in Theta Borealis. If Peladon is trying to create an industrial system the best bet is Cabon. The closest Industrial system to the Kingdom is TL8 Portine (TB1311). Which leaves the source for their higher tech ships a little problematic.

0411 Bilsham B436200-D Lo { 1 } (811-3) [1318] - - - 313 14 KPel K6 V D

0110 Peladons A772585-A He Ni Cp { 2 } (745-1) [3738] - KV - 700 4 KPel G4 V 0610 Burning Sty C200100-A Lo Va { 0 } (400-4) [1115] - - - 510 7 KPel M0 V D

0410 Westmoore B100200-B Lo Va { 1 } (411-3) [1316] - - - 200 7 KPel M0 V 0509 Kapalon B000632-B As Na Ni Va { 1 } (A55-3) [2717] - - - 520 9 KPel G2 IV

0311 Corbad E8B2430-8 Fl He Ni { -3 } (831-5) [1113] - - - 820 6 KPel F4 V 0112 Melham E9A5588-8 Fl Ni { -3 } (941-3) [5258] - - - 820 7 KPel F7 V D 0512 Cabon A543889-8 Po Ph Pi { 0 } (A78+1) [9869] - - - 300 9 KPel G3 V M2 V

0408 Sildona D310240-7 Lo { -3 } (410-5) [1112] - - - 610 10 KPel K4 V D 0111 Gaxfield C438279-7 Lo { -2 } (410-1) [3168] - - - 420 8 KPel M4 II 0113 Ronix B579565-7 Ni O: { -1 } (743-3) [3435] - - - 721 10 KPel A0 V

0312 Radson D566788-6 Ag Ri { 0 } (967+1) [7756] - - - 621 9 KPel F3 V

0609 Krytolon C545636-5 Ag Ni { -1 } (853-2) [5544] - - - 630 9 KPel F6 V

Graham2001 (talk) 05:26, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

Something else, the UWP for Peladons in Traveller map is completely different from those on the Traveller Wiki, what happened?Graham2001 (talk) 08:37, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

Good luck with the double check. Hopefully the list will help with that. I'll see what I can do with regards the A Class Ports. There will probably be two lists, one sorted by TL, the other by POP. Graham2001 (talk) 21:52, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

Systems with Class A Ports in Theta Borealis (Sorted by Population)[edit]

Class A Starports (Sorted by Population from Highest to Lowest.)

Specifically an industrial world or significant local industry.

  • 2703 Oujda A421ACF-D He Hi In Na Po Pz { 4 } (E9G+5) [FEAJ] - - A 420 8 NaHu K8 IV
  • 1223 Jelmirt AAA6A8D-C Fl Hi In Cp Pz Jaib4 { 4 } (E9F+5) [EE9G] - - A 720 11 KoPm F6 V
  • 3122 Dennson A672A78-C He Hi In { 4 } (F9F+4) [AE5C] - - - 430 11 NaHu M1 V D

  • 2831 Jugartha A000958-D As Hi In Na Va { 4 } (E8G+4) [9D5D] - - - 821 12 NaHu K3 V
  • 2112 Bur'vr'di'klr A675999-C Hi In (K'kree?) { 4 } (G8F+5) [AD6D] - K - 823 14 NaXX G9 II K2 V
  • 2226 Niparoo A8A49B8-C Fl Hi In { 4 } (D8F+4) [9D5C] - K - 320 7 NaHu G9 V
  • 0533 Higram A8569CE-C Hi Ga Pz { 3 } (D8E+5) [DC9G] - - A 320 8 NaHu G5 V
  • 2014 Tepas AAA79AC-A Fl Hi In Pz { 4 } (E8E+5) [CD8D] - - A 530 9 NaHu F9 V

  • 0619 Rodoto A88A8BA-D Ri Wa Ph Pz { 3 } (C7E+5) [AB7F] - K A 502 12 NaHu G2 V
  • 0624 Shimerdon A64A878-D Wa Ph Cp Pi JaibW { 3 } (D7D+2) [8B5D] - KV - 712 11 KoEm M1 V D
  • 3203 Jeilif A554869-C Pa Ph O: { 2 } (B7C+3) [9A6D] - - - 401 9 NaHu F5 II
  • 2126 Bortesi A7A489C-C Fl Ph Pz { 2 } (E7C+5) [BA8F] - K A 231 12 NaHu K8 V M0 V
  • 3240 Stowkau A87A864-C Wa Ph Pi O: { 2 } (C7C+1) [6A3A] - - - 620 11 NaHu F5 V K7 V
  • 1517 Geptorem A5718A5-A He Ph Pi (Attorn) { 2 } (C7B+1) [6A38] - - - 711 9 NaXX K4 V
  • 0512 Cabon A543889-8 Po Ph Pi { 0 } (A78+1) [9869] - - - 300 9 KPel G3 V M2 V

  • 1337 Katzebue A5557AB-C Ag Pz { 3 } (B6D+5) [9A7E] - - A 311 14 NaHu F6 V
  • 2009 Lacdor A5117BF-B Ic Na Pi Pz { 2 } (96C+5) [C9AG] - - A 400 4 NaHu F1 V M9 V M7 V
  • 2724 New Caladonia A6857A9-9 Ag Ga Ri { 3 } (B6C+4) [8A6A] - K - 420 11 NaHu M3 V

Collected nonindustrial worlds.

  • 0809 Siderion A000667-C As Na Ni Va O: { 1 } (A55+1) [675C] - - - 611 10 NaHu K9 V
  • 2606 Sapies A854643-9 Ag Ni (Cygmo) (Mitz) { 1 } (855-2) [3726] - - - 600 8 NaXX A6 III K1 V F3 V
  • 0720 Fonway A7426BD-8 He Ni Po Da { -1 } (D53+3) [A59C] - - A 232 11 NaHu G7 V
  • 1512 Amnok A310644-C Na Ni { 1 } (C55-1) [473A] - - - 722 11 NaHu F7 V
  • 0928 Darwald A593685-C Ni { 1 } (955-1) [473A] - K - 901 12 NaHu G0 II
  • 1628 Muravia A681673-C Ni Ri { 2 } (A56-1) [3829] - - - 620 5 NaHu A7 Ia
  • 0232 Abemire A570665-8 De He Ni O: { -1 } (B53-3) [4536] - - - 630 13 NaHu G7 II
  • 0435 Shief A558652-D Ag Ni { 2 } (D56-2) [2819] - - - 723 15 NaHu M3 II
  • 0538 Aster A97A675-D Ni Wa O: { 1 } (855-1) [473B] - K - 500 4 NaHu K5 IV D
  • 2032 McLuhan A000659-B As Na Ni Va { 1 } (955+2) [776C] - - - 610 8 NaHu G7 V
  • 2538 Sukarno A57567A-7 Ag Ni { 0 } (854+2) [8679] - - - 400 5 NaHu G2 V D K2 V M6 V

  • 0110 Peladons A772585-A He Ni Cp { 2 } (745-1) [3738] - KV - 700 4 KPel G4 V
  • 1602 Isbelra A420589-D De He Ni Po Cp { 1 } (945+2) [666E] - - - 411 12 TroC K7 V
  • 2308 Reerack A575500-B Ag Ni { 2 } (B46-2) [1716] - - - 213 10 NaHu M9 III D
  • 2605 Granian A656557-B Ag Ni Ga { 2 } (A46+2) [575B] - - - 821 9 NaHu M1 V
  • 3006 Gadwop A9A9584-A Fl Ni { 1 } (A45-1) [3638] - - - 421 9 NaHu G8 V
  • 3107 Nithus A541543-D He Ni Po (Captutians) { 1 } (845-2) [262A] - - - 110 9 NaXX K8 V
  • 0414 Kantrim A420586-C De He Ni Po { 1 } (A45+1) [464B] - - - 630 13 NaHu G1 V M8 V
  • 0716 Corelia A566553-C Ag Ni Pr { 2 } (846-1) [2729] - - - 710 6 NaHu F2 V
  • 1720 Conacus A433547-D Ni Po { 1 } (745+1) [565D] - - - 900 8 NaHu G4 V M3 V
  • 2520 Mandau A000576-B As Ni Va { 1 } (B45+1) [464A] - - - 722 16 NaHu G3 V M0 V
  • 2619 Kersian A695556-D Ag Ni { 2 } (946+1) [474C] - - - 311 11 NaHu G8 V M9 V
  • 0322 Pakwolf A411588-B Ic Ni { 1 } (B45+1) [565B] - - - 522 11 KoEm K2 V
  • 0630 Mapendal A425536-D Ni { 1 } (B45+1) [464C] - - - 431 12 NaHu K2 V
  • 0724 Rhintril A768572-D Ag Ni Pr { 2 } (946-2) [1719] - - - 802 7 KoPm F3 V D
  • 1022 Wolfen A550566-B De Ni Po O: { 1 } (A45+1) [464A] - - - 312 13 KoPm G4 V D
  • 1629 Isabit A9B7565-C Fl Ni O: { 1 } (A45-1) [363A] - - - 912 10 NaHu K8 V D
  • 2027 Idbar A552520-C Ni Po { 1 } (845-3) [1617] - - - 410 12 NaHu G0 V M9 V K6 V
  • 2428 Lone Star A5AA57A-C Fl Ni { 1 } (C45+3) [767E] - K - 523 12 NaHu M1 V D
  • 2625 Storm Rider A573520-D Ni { 1 } (B45-3) [1618] - - - 322 17 NaHu G5 III K5 V
  • 1434 Marinagua A6B5530-9 Fl Ni (Alejia) { 0 } (844-4) [1514] - - - 310 11 NaXX A0 V
  • 1436 Jasmire A423587-B Ni Po { 1 } (A45+1) [565B] - - - 421 11 NaHu K8 V
  • 2131 Eldorado A55758A-9 Ag Ni { 1 } (945+3) [767B] - - - 711 13 NaHu G2 V D

  • 0710 Nauvoo A627403-B Ni { 1 } (934-2) [1528] - - - 812 15 NaHu M1 V
  • 1506 Pautho A567456-D Ni Pa { 1 } (834+1) [354C] - S - 620 9 CsIm F6 V
  • 2407 Kansel A552424-9 Ni Po { 0 } (933-2) [2437] - V - 621 7 NaHu G3 V M8 V
  • 0120 Wathian A757477-8 Ni Ga Pa { -1 } (832-1) [4358] - M - 702 10 KoEm F7 V
  • 1511 Vilacon A200433-A Ni Va { 1 } (834-2) [1527] - - - 420 10 NaHu K5 V M0 V
  • 0328 Marjanet A200402-B Ni Va { 1 } (934-3) [1517] - - - 230 13 KoEm K1 III
  • 1222 LesParda A310464-B Ni O: { 1 } (734-1) [2539] - - - 610 11 KoPm K0 V
  • 3026 Artemis A434400-B Ni { 1 } (934-3) [1516] - - - 903 10 NaHu G6 V
  • 2932 Ganados A400466-B Ni Va O: { 1 } (A34+1) [354A] - - - 422 9 NaHu G9 V

  • 2817 Barenta A8B8372-B Fl Lo { 1 } (721-3) [1417] - - - 111 10 NaHu A3 V
  • 3022 Port Lanta A7A2344-B Fl He Lo { 1 } (521-1) [1439] - - - 600 12 NaHu G0 V
  • 0432 Pubora A957311-8 Lo { -1 } (720-5) [1214] - - - 420 6 NaHu M5 II
  • 1932 Willemstad AA9A335-B Lo Oc { 1 } (821-1) [1439] - - - 521 11 NaHu F8 V

  • 0319 Ilnoyor A898277-9 Lo { 0 } (510+1) [2259] - - - 510 10 KoEm F8 V D
  • 1519 Gutzkow A420231-D De He Lo Po { 1 } (711-3) [1319] - - - 612 11 NaHu M0 V
  • 2116 Bilow A84A212-B Lo Wa { 1 } (611-3) [1317] - V - 320 9 NaHu G3 V D M0 V D
  • 0236 Eylyre A868201-B Lo { 1 } (711-3) [1317] - - - 312 11 NaHu F3 V K5 V

  • 2602 Falmout A552100-C Lo Po { 1 } (501-3) [1217] - - - 802 15 NaHu M1 V M3 V
  • 3020 Hickos A644123-9 Lo { 0 } (400-3) [1126] - - - 210 7 NaHu G2 V
  • 1624 Obysan A435156-C Lo { 1 } (501+1) [124B] - - - 820 13 NaHu M1 V D
  • 2623 Gauntlet Run A8C5130-B Fl Lo { 1 } (501-3) [1216] - - - 320 6 NaHu F3 II F2 V G8 V

Graham2001 (talk) 09:52, 1 November 2021 (EDT)

A couple of images of a MegaCity[edit]

From DeviantArts, two image of the 'City of Newcrest', which might prove inspiring for one of the industrial systems in Theta Borealis. Probably not Oujda though.

As to what may be appropriate for Oujda, this image entitled 'Memorial' may be appropriate.

This image entitled 'The Great Hall' may be representative of the upper class areas of Oujdan archologies

Graham2001 (talk) 19:18, 26 November 2021 (EST)

And an image I think can stand as representing the first (Pre ACF/Tau corporation) 'Resort City' on Granian

The image 'Carrabean Towers' might be suitable for the post ACF/Tau corporation 'Resort Cities'

This image 'The Beach' is by the same artist as the one above and is also suitable.

Graham2001 (talk) 19:18, 26 November 2021 (EST)

Suggested change to Chang-Tu (World)[edit]

I'd rolled up a system for what you've termed Chang-Tu which I tried to submit to the Traveller Map but could not get the submission to work for some reason. Given the length of the scheduled trade link between it and Hertansi something more along the lines of the UWP below might be more appropriate:

0215 Chang-Tu A9C398C-D Fl Hi In

Your thoughts?

09:09, 22 November 2021 (EST)

When you say submitted to Traveller Map, how do you mean? You tried to adjust the data on Github?

When data in existing sectors is adjusted or updated, a sector data file (with the names, UWPs etc) and an xml file (with the routes, borders and so on) are prepared and submitted. These are the result of discussion and negotiation, within certain defined parameters, and with the submitted data Josh and Thomas (and usually Marc too) look it over to make sure all is good before it goes live.

The flavor of Theron is very much wilderness, and (other than the native minor race populations) any newly populous worlds were capped at Starport C / Population 6 / TL-9, with a preference for lower numbers if possible. Hence the values as given.

The J-6 routes are an issue.

It must be understood they are an artifact of 1980s "early in the game" enthusiasm rather than the practicalities of a frontier region that has a maximum TL of 13. It raises questions like where are these J-6 vessels originating from? In order to receive annual maintenance (essential for high performance vessels) which TL-15 class A starport are they using? And why are those rather basic, unimportant worlds (and not the far more important and prosperous nearby worlds) randomly linked by mighty J-6 communications routes that definitely wouldn't pass the current "sector design sniff test"?

Fundamentally, they're bollox.

But, I do have a kind of an idea...

(More to come)

Alagoric (talk) 10:25, 22 November 2021 (EST)

I like the calibration points, and the Nezal point raises some interesting questions, Polygraham Shipping is the personal property of one man. Did someone on Nezal make him angry? Looking at the jump map on the Nezal page ships can go Farbel - Nezal - Apratib just as quickly as if they use the calibration point and from Nezal they can also go Nezal - Amnok, the latter of which like Apratib is also served by Continental Lines.

When I designed the routes for Aaleem Consolidated Factors I assumed a Jump 2/3 capable fleet and tried to take in as many of the class A/B ports as I could, Indmaea fell outside that , but I regard it as a challenge for storytelling, as are the calibration points you've added. As for better contact, are you on the Traveller Mailing list, I post there from time to time. Graham2001 (talk) 19:11, 23 November 2021 (EST)

Warbor-Parn, Oudja & 'Blackbirding'[edit]

I posted this idea to you over on COTI, but I thought it worth elaborating a little bit here. 'Blackbirding' is the term used to describe the kind of slavery that happened in the South Pacific. I'm not going to go into detail on what went on as much of the story has come out by now. However the situation on Warbor-Parn with the possibility of larger undocumented populations seems ripe for this kind of thing.

Oudja, being the 'big fish' and an appalling record on Sophont's right's seems to be the most appropriate player in this kind of game. However their high population probably precludes the use of slaves on-world, and if the oligarchs are desirous of at least presenting the 'appearance of limits' to what they can do then it's going to be somewhere like Crexel where they are trying to create a 'second Oudja' as quickly as possible. Strong backs are definitely needed, but as the history of railroads in the Southern United States pre-Civil War show those undergoing 'indentured servitude' can be bought into more technical (albiet still subordinate) positions. Graham2001 (talk) 19:38, 10 December 2021 (EST)

Aslan Stuff[edit]

Reconciling the Regency of Muirimi and 'Syareahtaorl'[edit]

I've left a couple of messages on COTI summarising the issue, but basically there is a mismatch between what was implied in Alien Module 1: Aslan and Solomani & Aslan. The earlier module does not specifically identify what the borders drawn on the map surrounding the Aslan Heirate represent. However the scenario 'Syareahtaorl' in Alien Module 1 strongly implies that both regions are Aslan controlled. The scenario climaxes in a 19 system region named 'Luakhti' which is under control of the Loakhtarl clan (They occupy worlds in ".... less than four subsectors, all situated along the Hierate border in Eaiiyasiyw sector." As well as portions of Iphigenaia.) The principle world in Luakhti is called Hrirohyukh. Going from the information in the scenario Luakhti is located close to or more or less where the Trailing portion of the Regency lies. I'd like to try and work out a way to reconcile both books if that is possible. Graham2001 (talk) 23:43, 15 December 2021 (EST)

The Timeline of 'Syareahtaorl'[edit]

This is the pre-scenario timeline for the scenario published in Alien Realms 1: Aslan, as can be seen the start date of the scenario is 1111, but most of the events take place before 1105.

3609 (1080) - Three sons (Heatloi, Akoaft & Estalyah) of the head of the Loakhtarl clan come of age.

3610 (1081) - Akoaft (Second Son) leaves Heirate with a ten ship fleet in search of lands to settle.

3611 (1082) - Fourth Frontier War Starts. Akoaft reaches the Trojan Reach, decides to head Spinward.

3614 (1085) - Akoaft attacks Feirirlakh to obtain supplies, looses two ships.

3617 (1088) - Akoaft begins conquest of Luakhti. (Planets in the region are described as "...already developed landholds...)

3619 (1090) - Conquest of Luakhti completed. Akoaft takes the title of Hkastahistoti clan head (and presumably marries several daughters of the previous clanhead.)

3621 (1092) - Scout ship returns to Ilekhahke (Ealiyasiyw 2828, the Loakhtarl clan seat.) with news of Akoaft dating from around 3611.

3625 (1096) - Heatloi (First Son) succumbs to a 'common illness' but recovers albeit weakened, Estalyah (Third Son) takes advantage of this to make his own case for the succession.

3638 (1105) - A clan war between the Loakhtarl and Raohkeil Clans breaks out in Ealiyasiyw.

3642 (1109) - The Loakhtarl clan head announces he will step down in 3647 (1115), Heatloi is killed by assassins sent by the Raohkeil clan shortly after this announcement. Aikhaheh (The Loakhtarl clan heads younger brother.) starts his journey in search of Akoaft

3644 (1111) - Start of Scenario.

3647 (1115) - The Loakhtarl clan head steps down and transfers power to his successor.

Graham2001 (talk) 04:10, 17 December 2021 (EST)

Clans of 'Syareahtaorl'[edit]

Loakhtarl Clan (Homebase: Ealiyasiyw Sector), their holdings are in four unspecified subsectors of Ealiyasiyw along the Heirate border. The only world specifically mentioned is Ilekhahke, the clan seat.

Raohkeil Clan (Homebase: Ealiyasiyw Sector), Feirirlakh in Touchstone Sector is one of their colony worlds on the other side of the Great Rift.)

Hkastahistoti Clan (Homebase: Unknown, possibly Luakhti), the 14 world region known as Luakhti is controlled by them prior to Akoaft's conquest, if he succeeds to head of Loakhtarl clan then the two clans merge into one.

Graham2001 (talk) 04:10, 17 December 2021 (EST)

Timeline of 'First Son, Last Son'[edit]

This is the timeline for the other 'deep Aslan' scenario created by GDW this one is set in Waroatahe Sector, unfortunately the start year of the scenario is not given.

3409 (880) - Aaikhaihkau Clan founded on Eauahkusoilr

3450 (921) - The 'Song of Aaikhaihkau' a work describing the founding of Aaikhaihkau Clan written. (Approximate date.)

3609 (1080) - First son (Teal) of the Clan Head of Aaikhaihkau confirmed to succeed his father

3610 (1081) - Teal marries Easyeoiftakoh of Clan Aeli. This wedding is described as drawing "...the attention of the entire sector and caused ripples as far away as Kusyu..."

Indeterminate period - Easyeoiftakoh betrays Teal by carrying on an affair with one of his cousins. Discovered the pair flee to Ra'akhtaisaaoeah the Aeli clan seat triggering a 9 year clan war that ends through mutual exhaustion. During the Clan War Teal ascends to become Clan head of Aaikhaihkau. At some point after this a First Son by a later marriage comes of age, realizing that this heir is not up to the task of leading Aaikhaihkau Teal launches an expedition to find the First Son lost when his mother fled the court.

Graham2001 (talk) 05:21, 18 December 2021 (EST)


COTI (Messaged) Graham2001 (talk) 06:44, 16 December 2021 (EST)

COTI (Messaged) Graham2001 (talk) 02:05, 17 December 2021 (EST)

COTI (Messaged) Graham2001 (talk) 06:43, 20 December 2021 (EST)

COTI (Messaged) Graham2001 (talk) 19:53, 22 December 2021 (EST)

COTI (Messaged) Graham2001 (talk) 02:38, 25 December 2021 (EST)

COTI (Messaged) Graham2001 (talk) 04:25, 27 December 2021 (EST)

COTI (Messaged) Graham2001 (talk) 03:01, 28 December 2021 (EST)

Something culled from a novel[edit]

I've been quiet due to real life issues. I'm back and willing to help with further developing Theta Borealis. What follows is an OOB culled from a sci-fi novel I was reading. It's for an anti-piracy strikeforce. It could be used to represent a Trooles Confederation force or a mercenary unit.

3 x Destroyers 3 x Frigates 8 x Corvettes 1 x CVL (A converted bulk carrier that has a 60 fighter strike group.)

Graham2001 (talk) 10:16, 1 June 2022 (EDT)