User talk:Ronald B. Kline, Jr.

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Welcome (2011)[edit]

Hi, welcome to Traveller RPG! Thanks for your edit to the Forum:Ronald B. Kline page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything!

Caledon Edit (2014)[edit]

Thanks for the input on the Caledonian ships. I can't find my old copies of High Guard or TCS anymore, so it's cool to see what you've come up with.

  • Mitchberg (talk) 13:23, 1 October 2014 (EDT
  • Let me know if there is anything you want me to change or correct

Numbering Squadrons within Imperial Fleets (2015)[edit]

When I tinker in a non cannon way with random imperial numbered fleets I know what or how to number the squadrons within said fleet. Any ideas? - Ron Kline.

  • Hi User:Ronald B. Kline, Jr., have you studied real navy numbering systems, such as those by the Royal Navy (UK) or the US Navy (USA)? I usually look for real-world analogues before I get creative. Nearly all of my government work on the Traveller is based upon my real world degree in political science and international relations. Hope that helps.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:34, 12 February 2015 (EST)
  • p.s. I highly recommend signing your discussion post with four tildes
  • (Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:34, 12 February 2015 (EST)).
  • It helps to indicate that your posts come from you.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:34, 12 February 2015 (EST)

Ship types to add (2015)[edit]

  • How about mining ships or belter ships? I didn't those listed. Maksim.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 23:01, 11 January 2015 (EST)

Smelchak Contact (2015)[edit]

Would you please contact me off-board using E-mail at "Maksim_Smelchak" at that Yahoo place. Thanks!

What did I do wrong?

Are you seeing AbuseFilter warnings? (2015)[edit]

Because of a spate of spammers and their broken scripts we've seen some garbage entered into the wiki (which has been since cleaned up). In order to combat this, there is a mediawiki extension called AbuseFilter. This has a set of rules to check for bad behavior and stop it. Have you seen these? You would know this if you have tried to save a page and gotten a warning, then had to click submit a second time.

  • The reason I'm asking is I'm trying to determine if the rules are too aggressive, and blocking people (e.g. you) from getting work done. Mostly this would affect you when not logged in (because the spammer generally aren't).
  • Thanks
  • Tjoneslo (talk) 06:53, 7 March 2015 (EST)

Ronald B. Kline, Jr. (talk) 08:10, 7 March 2015 (EST)I took one page, which was random junk in a planet template, and so I just wrote up the planet. No filter, just a rewrite. Filter away, it hasn't prevented me from tinkering with stuff. You are doing great, keep up the good work. Thanks.

Thanks For Your Hard Work! (2015)[edit]

Hi Ron, thanks for your hard work. Your creativeness and inventiveness really comes through in your creature (animal) entries:

I would mention that the following link may be useful for you. Thomas thoughtfully entered in the T5 options for a simple animal entry here:

Thanks again! Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 13:17, 27 April 2015 (EDT)

Syzlin Republic Fleet (2015)[edit]

Ronald, would you fill in some more of this entry Syzlin Republic Fleet, please?

Thanks for all of your cool creations and hard work.

Sir George Chu (2016)[edit]

I am looking for more information on this character, as I have been named Baron of Lemish via the T5 Kickstarter.

  • I am working on the system and planet, and would love to discuss it with you.

Help Request (2016)[edit]

Ron, can I get some help from you making GURPS world entries as you have done before?

I only own original classic traveller. I don't own any GURPS materials. Most of the entries I did, I just made stuff up or converted other source materials, sheep in new clothes, as it were...

Do you have the materials for Beyond Sector?
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:58, 11 May 2016 (EDT)

No sir. Sorry, limited library.

What do you have, Ron?
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:18, 13 May 2016 (EDT)

I have all the classic stuff lbb 0-8, striker, high guard, some megatraveller, all adventures 1-13, double adventures , classic supplements 1-13, classic games 1-6, JTAS and challengers 1-33, some dragon and white dwarf issues and articles along the way

I would love tog et some more of the Challenger, Dragon, and White Dwarf data in the Wiki observing any copyright considerations.
Would you be up for that? Lots of world, alien, and other such data awaiting a loving scribe like you, Ron.
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:54, 13 May 2016 (EDT)

I will see what I can do, oh wiki master.

Thank you, Ron. Appreciate the compliment, but Thomas is the Wiki master. I only serve and work at improving it.
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:01, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
Thank you, Ron! Great job with Curson (world). I had to strip the Ni Po designation from the De Lo, but left notes in place with your suggestions. When Thomas institutes the expanded UWP, he would have stripped it. Looks great though. If you want to work on a certain area, let me know and I'll put down all the basic data for you to make it easier. I already have first pass (basic data) done for several areas including all of Delphi Sector.
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:58, 17 May 2016 (EDT)

Subsector Template link (2016)[edit]

Ron, you can find my sector, subsector, and other templates here: Maksim-Smelchak/layout templates1

  • Scroll down until you see Subsector. Just copy and paste and you're set. Then correct and fill in the details. Goes much more quickly than hand typing everything.
  • There are actually three pages of semi-standardized organizational setting layouts/templates that I designed. That is only one of them.
  • Please do not make any edits on that page.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:45, 9 July 2016 (EDT)

OK, I get the template thing, what about the names not matching the traveller map positions?

We, or you, will need to ask help from Thomas with that. It requires someone with administrator privileges to do if I am not mistaken.

Subsector Template link (2016)[edit]

Ron, if you would like to learn how to fill out the worlds, please contact me. I would love to get your land line or cell phone number so we can communicate more easily.
Your work is appreciated and valued.
All of the trade codes are located here: Trade classification/summaries
There are three types:
  1. World codes: Done in groups: eg. Hi In Na Va
  2. Secondary codes: Done as singles: e.g. Sa or Mr
  3. Base codes: Done as singles or groups: e.g. K and KM, N & NS, etc.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 23:09, 7 August 2016 (EDT)

Creature or Animal Creation Guidelines (2016)[edit]

User:Ronald B. Kline, Jr., please pay attention to one of these pages: Template:Animal simple, Template:Animal simple/doc, or Template:Animal.
The wiki uses T5 guidelines. May I help you understand them better?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:25, 13 September 2016 (EDT)
Ronald B. Kline, Jr. (talk) 14:45, 13 September 2016 (EDT)I am getting the distinct impression I had better be hands off from now on. If I hinder it is without malice or forethought. I tinker and play to amuse myself. If what I do is wrong, anyone is more than welcome to delete, remove, expunge, edit, curtail, amend, redress...
WIKI means open source, johnny Q public, so if the ignorant foul up something just delete it, no harm no foul. I am not a proof reader, editor or rules lawyer, I acknowledge most know more than I. Just fix it if it is broken and it bothers you. I can't can't promise not to make mistakes, that is what I do. :)
Not at all, Ron. I'd simply like to see you elevate your game. You are very welcome to do what you do. Please do not interpret otherwise. Hands on. Go for it. But, you could be enjoying the creation process more and learning things at a deeper level. Your call.
In fact, I'd really love to be able to communicate with you more freely. I really like your creature design and feel I could learn more from you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:52, 13 September 2016 (EDT)

Distant Fringe (2017)[edit]

Thank you Ron for the mods to Ras Tennol, appreciated. If you spot any others you think ought to be done, please go for it. (Still getting the hang of Talk, bear with me).

Alagoric (talk) 17:14, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

Nice starships, absolutely loving the vessels of the Last Armada. Many thanks indeed for putting them together. Only one problem tho - the jump drive cap is jump-2 / TL11. At the time of the Second and Third Interstellar Wars - the era of the Last Armada - Jump 2 was as good as jump drives got. Terrans invented Jump-3 drives in 2238AD (during the 8th Interstellar War and almost a century after the Last Armada had skedaddled) – a technological advancement that was a total game-changer for both the Terrans and the Vilani and doomed the First Imperium.

I hate to ask, but is it possible to do a redesign to match the canon tech restrictions? Everything except the jump is fine btw. I'm pretty sure you've factored this in already, but every ship of the Last Armada carried enough fuel to perform at least 2x consecutive jump-2s and about 6 weeks powerplant fuel too (normal powerplant fuel requirement x1.5). Long-Range Pattern Starships is particularly relevant to this.

I've fiddled slightly with the layout of one of the ship pages (the Last Armada Fleet Tender) and added a little historical content too - I'm going for a consistent presentation of articles and all that, let me know what you think. Also, coz they're excellent, your fine vessels are now included in the Distant Fringe library, hope that's ok. Again, many thanks for your additions to the setting, really appreciate it.

PS If you are happy to make direct contact (facebook messenger - (user name Ade Stewart, stupid purple smiley face icon if there's more than one person by that name) - or email are my better options) I would love to share my Ships of The Distant Fringe with you - I would very much welcome your thoughts and opinions. There are a few of them... ships, that is.

Alagoric (talk) 12:29, 25 August 2017 (EDT)

Ronald B. Kline, Jr. (talk) 19:33, 25 August 2017 (EDT)Very sorry about the mess up. I didn't know the tech level of the Terrans for your time frame, I guessed wrong. I will fix the ships ASAP. I love the setting. The Distant Fringe has several cool aliens and political groupings, little pocket empires. I see no naval or scout bases. I see "military" bases and only a few class A ports with high tech 11-12 level. I would love to take a crack at the fleets of these guys. What can you tell me about fleet size, philosophy of design, what do they like? Do the aliens have ships or just the humans? Are they book 2 small ships or high guard big ships, or something else. How are they armed, all jump 2 or less, with the fuel issues you mentioned?

Absolutely no problem, was slightly concerned I was going to come across as a bit of a patronising dick by providing all of those links, hope it didn't seem that way. I figured, well, information is power and all that...

Thank you again, your ships are awesome stuff. Gotta admit, I'm a total sucker for classic trav, definitely my absolute favourite version of the rules. The ships I've done are all CT Book 5 High Guard, though I'm trying to get my head around putting them together for T5. I really like T5 though it is a bit brain-melty.

Bases, yep only military bases. There is no scout service in the Distant Fringe - while there are IISS-type organisations they're all either private businesses or branches of a State's military, similar to the way the US Air Force was part of the US Army in WW2. Bases themselves have not been defined, but I've been playing them as consolidated military centers. Any military base within the Distant Fringe is both a Naval Base (equivalent to an Imperial Naval Base) and an army camp (I'm thinking something similar to Fort Bragg in the US of A). Truth be told, I probably ought to put together a Wiki article to make that clear.

Military vessels are not so much my thing, I like commercial spacecraft. Merchants and traders, couriers and transports, they're what ring my bell. The ships I've put together are mostly merchantmen, and largely TL11 or less. In summary:

  • Small craft, ranging from 10 to 90 dTons. Launches, Pinnaces, Shuttles, the usual stuff. 8 designs so far.
  • Barges (jump-0 vessels such as interface landers, fuel skimmers etc). From about 100 dTons to 15000 dTons, but only 4 designs so far.
  • J1 Ships, all commercial types. I figure that if the navy needs something with performance this poor it will requisition it rather than build one specially. Sizes go from 100 dTons up to 75,000 dTons. 8 designs so far.
  • J2 Ships. Again, mostly commercial ships, again from 100 dTons to 90,000 dTons. It includes 10,000 dTon Liners, 40,000 dTon Heavy Tankers, 90,000 dTon Bulk Carriers, lots of stuff. 14 designs to date.
  • Military ships, fighters, escorts, military scouts mostly. The largest is 1000 dTons. Like I said, space navies not so much my thing. 9 designs.

So there we are, 41 ship designs, all done up and ready to go. But none yet on the Wiki.

I can be contacted at - please, do email me at this address and I'll send you the data to take a look at (to the friendly folks in charge, I'll remove the email link if it breaks any rules).

Alagoric (talk) 04:46, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

Distant Fringe ports[edit]

Found this (and tidied it up a bit)

A Class Starports of Far Home Sector

A Class Starports of Halcyon Sector

Worth noting, Sath ports calculated as being on a wartime basis, all other ports at peacetime output.

Alagoric (talk) 18:27, 30 August 2017 (EDT)

Distant Fringe: Sath Stuff[edit]

Hi Ron, hope you're good - been seeing a lot of stuff about the crappy weather in the US of A and hoping you're doing ok.

Like, wow, the Sath have a military! Splendid!

I thought it might be worth running this past you. Its a draft version of the Sath background I am putting together. Its not finished or anything - in truth I haven't worked on it in ages. But, as you're doing quite a lot of Sath stuff it seemed only fair to give you a heads-up. Feel free to offer opinions etc, another point of view would be quite useful.

Draft for the background for the Sath[edit]

The Sath Alliance is made up of three belligerent Factions. The Factions were the winners in a brutal civil war that occurred at about the same time as the Sath developed the tech level (TL11) to manufacture Jump-2 drives. The winning Factions held parts of the two major star clusters that make up Sath territory.

The Ka'sa Faction dominates the main part of the Sha'a Cluster, in the coreward part of Sarudis Subsector.

The Khas'ahi Faction controls the trailing edge of the Sha'a Cluster, in the coreward part of Sath Subsector.

The Shikh'aa Faction controls the whole of the K'shek Cluster, in the rimward part of Sath Subsector.

A tense armed truce exists among the three Factions. The majority of their navy and military forces are standing off against each other, and military incidents do occasionally occur. A shadowy head of state, the Issh’t’ka, the physical embodiment of the state and the culture, holds sway over all of the Factions of the Sath Alliance and demands their obedience and loyalty. Proclamations given by the Issh’t’ka must be acted on, and an equally shadowy "Guard" ensure that those demands are met. The Issh’t’ka may require the military forces of one Faction to support the armed forces of another, despite the reluctance of both Factions to enter into such an arrangement.

However fractious and temperamental the Sath may be, they are united in their intense dislike of humans. These upstart thieving aliens from far far away have stolen the whole of the Demon Cluster, rightfully Sath space, and are ravaging its worlds. If they are given half a chance, the large, violent, dangerous human creatures will take the worlds of the Sath Alliance too.

  • The Shikh'aa Faction (the one that got the homeworld) is the strongest (even though it has a lower overall population) but it is effectively stuck in an interstellar dead-end and facing off against two allied opponents. It is focusing its energies on pushing into the Hak'tha Spread, an isolated cluster of stars lying within the Great Void. It is constructing a jump-bridge (the Ith-Saa-Ka Waypoint) to achieve this. In time, it will get a lot of prime territory, including a garden world.
Sshkih (2837 Far Home Sector) is the only Class A port in the K'shek Cluster. Ch'kaahi (2836 Far Home Sector, the Sath homeworld) has a corresponding level of technology and supplies many of the components and elements required to build vessels. The world only has a workforce of a few million, though the majority of those are employed within the shipbuilding industry. It has an absolute maximum ship building/repair capacity of 60,000 displacement tons. The homeworld itself has the port capacity to handle about 12,000,000 displacement tons of shipping, but it can't build jump-capable vessels.
  • The Ka'sa Faction and the Khas'ahi Faction share the same cluster of stars. They distrust each other intensely but have learned to cooperate. As allies against the Shikh'aa Faction they have a higher population but are overall more technologically backward. The Ka'sa Faction has launched the occupation of the Hell Worlds in order to expand its territory and its access to resources. This has badly backfired. Although the faction is militarily in control of the region, the humans are horribly tenacious, they're technologically advanced, and they're extremely heavily armed.
Ik'sath (2233 Far Home Sector) is the only Class A port in the Sha’a Cluster and is controlled by Ka’sa Faction. It is also the only world in the cluster that possesses a decent level of technology. It only has a workforce of a few million for all industries, including shipbuilding, component manufacture, electronics, weapons creation, and all of the rest of it. It has an absolute maximum ship building/repair capacity of 60,000 displacement tons.
The Ka'sa Faction are woefully short of resources: the majority of the worlds they control are resource poor. The Khas'ahi Faction, however, have adequate resources but no means to make starships. The two Factions trade ships for raw materials.

References: Port capacities derived from Trillion Credit Squadron, campaign rules, pages 31-34, and assuming a maximum Government multiplier (x1.5)

Hope thats of interest. I'm more than happy to muck around with the meat of this to fit it in with the military forces. Again, thanks for all the ships and vehicles.

Alagoric (talk) 23:39, 29 August 2017 (EDT)

Ronald B. Kline, Jr. (talk) 04:47, 30 August 2017 (EDT) Rain but no worries, what part of the world are you in?

I will shrink the monitor. I can add some bigger sath ships up to the 60,000 ton limit. Does each factor have a total fleet tonnage? Maintenance costs per year etc. I gave each class A and B port different designs, does that match the factions? How many jump capable ships should the class B port factions have traded for, and from which faction? Does each faction have 12 million tons. I gave the highest population planet the biggest fleet of monitors but no jump ships. I am working on the 3 dton TL 11 grav vehicles now. Do any of the other aliens have fleets? I recall most seemed more primitive than the humans. Do all the human factions use the same 41 designs?

I'm in the UK - I'm a Brit originally from London (cor blimey Guv'nor!) but I now live in the middle of England. Its not raining over here tho - kind of ironic...

Re fleet sizes etc, to be honest sir, you've got a free hand with this one - the best guidance I can offer is the Construction Time Table on page 33 of Trillion Credit Squadron, which shows the build times for vessels of various tonnages in weeks (interpolating the values for different size hulls is pretty easy). The Sath achieved TL11 in 5550AD - about 50 years ago (the reference can be found in the timeline in Deep Sector - I'll make sure that this info gets included in the overall write-ups on the Sath Alliance etc). 50 years equals roughly 2600 weeks of Jump-2 construction time.

  • The TCS table indicates that a 60,000 displacement ton hull takes roughly 212 weeks (4 years) to construct, a total commitment of port space and a huge chunk out of those 2600 weeks. And that doesn't allow for construction of merchant tonnage and maintenance space etc. Nothing to say that it has to be built all in one go tho - do 10 weeks of work, leave it tethered to an orbital buoy and bang out some merchants and escorts, do another 20 weeks and so on, eventually you have a capital ship. The Sath had Jump-1 technology for millennia, but given the limited jump construction space, its likely that these vessels, still heavily used, are beginning to get a bit elderly and unreliable now.
    • It makes me wonder whether the Sath have committed to building a lot of big, rugged, armored monitors - and possibly a variety of types and sizes of them - in the Ck'kaahi system, and use jump-2 carriers to transport them - possibly one at a time, depending on how big they are - to where they are needed.
    • Are long-range jump-1 carriers a viable option with regard to this? Perhaps the Sath have vessels of this kind that were built prior to 5550AD. At what age does a ship get retired, especially given the shortage of maintenance space?
    • Do the Sath have an elderly but large fleet of long-range jump-1 warships? It kind of reminds me of naval warfare at the beginning of the 20th century, with a few nations fielding modern dreadnoughts, while lots of lesser nations had old paddlewheel steamers, hybrid ships with sails and engines, or even napoleonic-era warships like USS Constitution. A really interesting era of naval history (transitional periods always are) and perhaps a good parallel for the Sath, who are still transitioning into domestic production of jump-2.

Anyway, that's the basic numbers from the rules as best as I can interpret them. Gotta say, it is something of a challenge building a fleet for the Sath (the nature of their ports and tech means you've properly got one hand tied behind your back) and I massively appreciate the efforts you've gone to to get it to fit the background. The work you've done is absolutely excellent and has brought to light some aspects of the Sath that means I'm going to rework some of the background - inspiration and clarification etc. And that's properly good.

Also, with regard to the Sath, their formations, tactics, numbers, equipment types, deployments etc are down to you, you genuinely are the Grand Issha of the Armed Forces of the Sath Alliance and I bow to your exhalted wisdom. Go for it, you're good at that sort of thing.

Also, the Ith-Saa-Ka Waypoint is noted as being "heavily guarded" so mebbe there's squadrons or flotillas stationed there. Just putting it out there...

The Esaran in Halcyon Sector have their own starships too, and a large cultural area. The Unity of Sed - a kind of ISIS in space - is a direct threat to them and is actively hostile to all of the interstellar states and neutral worlds around it.

The 41 ships I did were produced to give a range of suitable tech vessels, particularly merchant craft, to ply the Star Lanes, the arterial trade routes of the region. They're just representative, not a definitive list or anything. The few warships I did were basically there as the kind of vessels that might be used as patrol craft, customs vessels, or private security craft. They were small because that put them on a scale that the characters could meaningfully interact with. A 500 dTon patrol ship is a tough opponent, but you might well get away with it. A 20,000 ton light cruiser is a different prospect entirely.

Alagoric (talk) 11:00, 30 August 2017 (EDT)

Brwygaid / Antares (2017)[edit]

Hi Ron, I've been doing some work on Antares Sector and came across your stuff on Brwygaid. I really enjoyed it, its a totally neat idea. I hope its ok but I expanded on the star system and mainworld descriptions a bit - I completely stuck to your original details - and kind of "T5'd" it up just a touch. If you were ok with it, I'd love to add a few more thoughts, but I don't really want to do anything else until you've okayed it. Thanks for the inspiration sir.

Alagoric (talk) 06:50, 4 August 2017 (EDT)

Ronald B. Kline, Jr. (talk) 20:55, 5 August 2017 (EDT) Have at it my friend, no worries, be my guest. Enjoy!

Ok, I finally got around to it... I've reworked the Brwygaid secret a bit to (hopefully) make the content a little more flowing and accessible. I hope its ok and in line with your concept. I really like the world tbh, definitely my favourite red zone.

Was wondering, can a secret have a secret? I mean, wouldn't it be kinda cool if the damaged AI somehow rescued (beamed out?) the population of the world just before they were nuked to death by the Duke, and now has them in some kind of suspended animation. It uses the brain of one of them as the core of each new warbot requested by the Navy. Of course, the Navy don't know this, and the gods forbid if one of the Warbots became aware of its former life - I'm guessing sanity (or lack thereof) might be a real issue. After all, to the AI, they are just components to be used. Gotta wonder how long the supply of former settlers will last for, and exactly what happens when the AI runs out of them. Perhaps the local Vargr aren't suitable to use, so its forced to take other handy humans. And just how would it do that? "Beam" them out a la nuclear destruction? Maybe its built itself a few "helpers" during quiet times to fetch things it needs. Just a thought...

Alagoric (talk) 15:44, 25 August 2017 (EDT)

Ronald B. Kline, Jr. (talk) 05:07, 26 August 2017 (EDT)1st I would love to see the 41 designs you have if that is possible. Do you need/want help putting them into the wiki, or are these going to get published elsewhere? Would you like some ships made for things you have not gotten to yet? Do the political entities need fleets/squadrons? Do you need striker vehicles for their armies or marines? I would love to help. If not that is totally cool. Do aliens serve/work on human ships. When the NPC bad guys show up, is there and imperial star destroyer type thing with fighters for the PCs to shoot down?

BTW with the ancient AI, I think a portal to another location/dimension is more in keeping with ancient technology than beaming. If the AI wanted to intercede during the Duke's attack, and save a few servitor human samples. Maybe as you mention the drones have a few human components, personality engrams et al.


Generic Names (2017)[edit]

Ron, please consider using less generic names for some of the very cool militaries that you are creating.

  • Names like the "Protectorate" at Leset (world) have already been used many times.
  • Might I suggest the "Lesetian Protectorate Planetary Guard?" Your call.
  • I realize that Adie made up that polity name and that you two are collaborating.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 05:24, 12 September 2017 (EDT)

Ship summary list template updated (2018)[edit]

I've completed the updates to the Template:Ship summary list. This should now show all the entries for every ship class. I also modified the look somewhat. Please let me know what you think. Tjoneslo (talk) 00:00, 31 January 2018 (EST)

Ronald B. Kline, Jr. (talk) 00:28, 1 February 2018 (EST)I greatly appreciate all your hard work. Thank you very much, I welcome all the help I can get. I am grateful for your patience and generous talents.

Quality tags (2018)[edit]

Please stop stripping the quality tags out of articles.

They are:

  • Stub
  • Basic
  • Intermediate
  • Advanced

Would you like to learn more about them?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:17, 8 September 2018 (EDT)

Single-spacing (2018)[edit]

Ron, can you please start single spacing your new entries?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:52, 20 October 2018 (EDT)

Embedding Tables within Tables (2018)[edit]

Ron, the basic rule is to leave spaces around tables within tables:


{| class="wikitable sortable" 
|+ '''Basic Vehicle Characteristics''' 
! #.
! Category
! Remarks
| 6.
| [[Vehicle's Weapon|Armament]]
The unstabilized, turret mounted '''Heavy Machine Gun''' can engage 4 targets/phase. The gun has a +2 signature when it fires. There is storage for 1,600 rounds, enough for 40 fire phases. A full load of ammo is included in the purchase price. Its other direct fire characteristics are:
: Direct Fire Characteristics: '''HMG'''
: ''Effective Range'': 500m (6) +3
: ''Long Range'': 1km (5) +2
: ''Extreme Range'': 1.5km (3) +1

There is a tube missile launcher in the turret on the chassis deck. The launcher carries a single operator guided missile with a wire command link, included for the purchase price. These missiles are 8.4kg and carry a 9cm HEAP 32 warhead. These missiles have a +1 DM to hit and a 4km range.        

{| class="wikitable" style="width: 30%;"
|+ Characteristics: 
|''Attack Range''
| Wire Op-Guided HEAP 32, 
| 4km 
| Cr52.9



{| class="wikitable sortable" 
|+ '''Basic Vehicle Characteristics''' 
! #.
! Category
! Remarks
| 6.
| [[Vehicle's Weapon|Armament]]
The unstabilized, turret mounted '''Heavy Machine Gun''' can engage 4 targets/phase. The gun has a +2 signature when it fires. There is storage for 1,600 rounds, enough for 40 fire phases. A full load of ammo is included in the purchase price. Its other direct fire characteristics are:
: Direct Fire Characteristics: '''HMG'''
: ''Effective Range'': 500m (6) +3
: ''Long Range'': 1km (5) +2
: ''Extreme Range'': 1.5km (3) +1
There is a tube missile launcher in the turret on the chassis deck. The launcher carries a single operator guided missile with a wire command link, included for the purchase price. These missiles are 8.4kg and carry a 9cm HEAP 32 warhead. These missiles have a +1 DM to hit and a 4km range.        

{| class="wikitable" style="width: 30%;"
|+ Characteristics: 
|''Attack Range''
| Wire Op-Guided HEAP 32, 
| 4km 
| Cr52.9
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:10, 11 November 2018 (EST)
Neat. I did not know this. Thanks Tjoneslo (talk) 14:55, 11 November 2018 (EST)

Fixing the InfoboxShip pages (2019)[edit]

I apologize for messing up the pages with the Template:InfoboxShips. It was a bad edit that shouldn't have been left without testing.

I have been working on a new Ship Infobox: Template:InfoboxShip2, with a new layout and several new and updated fields. If you have some time any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 00:54, 10 June 2019 (EDT)

Ron, you are welcome to experiment with Template:InfoboxShip2, which is Thomas'es experiment with ship infoboxes, under which he ignored much of the working group's input. But, I recommend waiting for Template:InfoboxShip3, which will be easier to use, have most of the same features, and be more of what you have been used to. Plus, Adie will be likely be able to aid you in learning the new templates if you wish.

We have also been steadily tagging your designs under Category: Ron Kline Design so that you can alter return to your designs and be able to instill more of your amgic into them.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:31, 10 June 2019 (EDT)