Talk:WHULorigan

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Welcome (2016)[edit]

Welcome to the blog, Wayne! Please feel free to ask questions. Always happy to help.

CONTACT[edit]

Contact Exchange (2016)[edit]

Wayne, would you please send me your cell number at CotI? I would like us to be able to contact each other more quickly and effectively. I will give you mine as well, just do not want to post it here.

By the way, I think your star research is brilliant. Thank you for sharing it.

ASTRONOMY & ASTROPHYSICS[edit]

Universe (2017)[edit]

Wayne, want to give the universe article a try? You have a better feel for astronomy than I do. M.
I am still on vacation with limited internet access at the moment. Perhaps sometime during January I can take a look at it.

Supernova (2020)[edit]

Can you check the veracity (in game terms) of this article?

BackworldTraveller (talk) 14:19, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

There is at least one stellar "incident" within the History of the Third Imperium (ca 550 ?) that might be classified as a Supernova on an inhabited Imperial world, according Agent of the Imperium. I will have to look up details later. --WHULorigan (talk) 15:49, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

WANTED STAR ARTICLES[edit]

[Space below reserved for requested write-ups for Real-Universe Stars on Wiki] -- WHULorigan


THE SPINWARD EXTENTS & BEYOND[edit]

Zydarian Codominion in The Beyond (2017)[edit]

Two things:

1) Please don't edit the <sector>/summary pages. They are auto generated and the changes will be overwritten the next time I run the trade map generation process. (talk) 16:02, 23 February 2017 (EST)

Wayne, I built out versions of every sector that you can modify. Tell me which one you want and you can use that.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:07, 24 February 2017 (EST)
I had been working on Vanguard Reaches & Beyond, discovering what world-pages (based on the Wiki and TravellerMap), needed to have disambiguation pages made so that clicking on a link didn't take a user to another world with the same name in the wrong sector (e.g. making WORLDNAME (world) a disambiguation page and creating WORLDNAME (Be HHHH) (world) or WORLDNAME (VR HHHH) (world) and changing the name of the original article for a world in another sector, as necessary, to a WORLDNAME (SS HHHH) (world) format. I was using the "What Links Here" link on the original page in question to find related articles and fix up the associated links.
Ok, I can build out those pages for you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:37, 24 February 2017 (EST)

2) Zydarian Codominion is the name from the Traveller Map. We should make sure the wiki and the Traveller Map are in sync. If you are sure the name is Zydarian Codominium, let's make sure to update Traveller Map too. But I'm pretty sure "Codominium" is wrong, and we should update the wiki. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:02, 23 February 2017 (EST)

  • The original name in the Paranoia Press booklet The Beyond was consistently Zydarian Codominium. The only place I have seen Zydarian Codominion is on the T5SS "In Review" data of TravellerMap. I had e-mailed Inexorabletash about it about two weeks ago as to whether or not it was an intentional change with T5SS or an accidental oversight, and he was unsure. I can change everything to point to one or the other. Which would you prefer?
Let's keep the reference from the sources as the primary articles. I think we should bring up the spelling change in the CotI T5 second survey thread to see if anyone knows about why the change was made. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:27, 23 February 2017 (EST)
I don't know why those changes were made. Still following up with Marc and Josh.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:07, 24 February 2017 (EST)
UPDATE: Josh sent my questions off to Marc this weekend.

Beyond & Vanguard Layout Pages (2017)[edit]

Wayne AKA WHULorigan and Thomas AKA Tjoneslo, I set up these layout pages to assist your development efforts, Wayne.
While Thomas'es sector data pages are autogenerated and will eventually be overwritten, these pages will not. Thomas and I corresponded earlier and set up the layout page system. I have been using them for about two years now.
Please feel free to edit them to your heart's delight in your development efforts.
Thanks for all of your hard work.
Please message or text me if I can further help out your hard work.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:35, 26 February 2017 (EST)

THE SOLOMANI RIM[edit]

Terra System (May 2018)[edit]

Many thanks for adding the images to the worlds of the Terra system. Looks really good.

Alagoric (talk) 09:41, 16 May 2018 (EDT)
  • Happy to help. If you eventually get around to doing full-write-ups on the other worlds (Saturn, etc), I'll add pictures of the significant moons of those worlds as well. Thanks for putting in all of the time to add detail to the Sol System articles.
--WHULorigan (talk) 11:45, 16 May 2018 (EDT)

TravellerMap Image for the Terran worlds (2019)[edit]

I was looking through your edits to the worlds for the Sol system and saw you added this as an image:

[1]

This image isn't very useful as presented. I suggest three alternatives:

  • Use a different scale. This gets the UWP included.

[2]

Corridor style="width: 250px; height: 350px; border: solid 1px black;"
map from Travellermap.com

style="width: 220px; height: 250px;"
Jump map from Travellermap.com [1]
Fixed. I used alternative #1.

Cool.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:57, 22 March 2019 (EDT)


REAVERS DEEP & DARK NEBULA[edit]

FAR TRAILING: UNKNOWN KOLIRE-GENFERT POLITY[edit]

'NOTE: An early hand-drawn map of Charted Space by GDW staff that is available on the MegaTraveller CD-ROM from Far Future Enterprises shows the extreme spinward edge of a large (at least sector sized or more) unnamed polity trailing of the Hive Federation in Kolire Sector (which is the extreme trailing edge of the map). It appears to extend rimward into Genfert Sector.


Unknown Kolire Polity.jpg


NOBILITY[edit]

Alasdair Morgan Gunn entry[edit]

Greetings;

Just wanted to thank you for the great looking edit and clean up of the format.

Take care - Steven

Re Landed Gentry (2024)[edit]

Imperial Landed Nobility vs. Imperial High (Landed) Nobility (Notes 2024)
Apologies in advance about being long-winded.

I've noticed that you have changed some of the headers in the Nobility sections of some world description templates from Imperial Landed Nobility to Imperial High (Landed) Nobility.

Prior to T5, the breakdown of the genreral categories of nobility was:

  • High Nobility
  • Rank Nobility
  • Honour Nobility

Since the publication of Jum Kundert's material in Imperiallines #7 & #8 for T5, the terminology has become:

  • Landed Nobility
  • Ceremonial Nobility
  • Honour Nobility

Though the terms have changed slightly, the categories are not an exact correspondence. Likewise, the original terms also subtly shifted their meanings and interpretations over the course of the previous rulesets. Honour Nobility has remained reasonably static in interpretation, so I will not address it. Rank Nobility is what included both 1) "Imperial Administrators" (and maps directly onto T5 Ceremonial Nobility) as well as 2) "Local Nobility" which represented Nobles of systems who somehow did not easily fit into oversight by the standard Imperial Nobility model, often covering local leaders. Ceremonial Nobility also includes Nobles who oversee other Imperial functions or ceremonial duties that need to be performed.

It is the third set that is at issue here, what T5 calls "Landed Nobles" and earlier rulesets called "High Nobles". There is also the additional consideration that Traveller has always been clear that Imperial Government begins at the Subsector Level. The noble model (under T5 certainly) is that all individuals who receive a Noble Title (regardless of category) are "landed" in the sense of receiving a fief/land-grant commensurate with their standing (or remuneration or compensation in an equivalent amount, possibly) for the Noble's personal maintenance. But a "Landed Noble" (proper) as a proper term, is referring to those Nobles who represent their world at an interstellar level and/or before the Moot (or in the case of Knights, represent the Imperium to the world in an "official/ambassadorial" type of role). Greater Dukes (F) carry with them the added appointment of Subsector Governor as the first tier of the Imperial Government (other lesser Nobles in the Imperial Administrative (Ceremonial) structure within the Subsector report to them). They also deal with other subsector lesser Landed Nobility in terms of mediating between worlds at the intersystem level under their subsector-governance.

The term "High Noble" was interpreted by different rulesets and authors inconsistently. The terms Landed Noble (proper) and High Noble do not seem to precisely overlap. Some earlier rulesets seemed to imply that the "High Nobility" was a term reserved for the nobility involved in Imperial Interstellar Government (i.e. Dukes or higher, or at the very least Counts), whereas others used it to refer to any noble of any rank who represented a world (Baron +).

When I created the system of World Nobility Pages on the Wiki (See Nobles of Rhylanor or Nobles of Capital as examples), I took all of this into account and made the decision to use the T5 Term of Landed Noble to refer to all of those Nobles who represent either the Imperium to the World or the World to the Imperium (Knights or higher) as detailed in Imperiallines #7 and as noted in the T5 Noble Extensions (Nx) in UWPs, but I specifically used the term "High Landed Noble" in the Header for those Landed Nobles who held the position of Subsector Governor (nominally of Greater Duke (F) or Higher, but feasibly it could be a Lesser Duke (f) or an acting Count (E) in some rare Backwater Border or Frontier Subsector/Quadrant situations).

In the world templates, I suggest leaving the "Imperial Nobility" section-heading as "Imperial Landed Nobility", as the worlds will have titles listed there that have no claim to being referred to as "High" (especially if the world has ONLY a "Knight" as its Landed Noble.

--WHULorigan (talk) 22:46, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you sir, very much appreciated, and point well made - totally see where you're coming from and agree thoroughly. I'll go back thru what I've done and change all extant examples.
Alagoric (talk) 23:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

County of Celepina (2024)[edit]

I left a note on the discussion page for Talk:County of Celepina.

Thanks mate. I hugely appreciate your checking up on things like this - it's good to know that there are knowledgeable people keeping an eye on stuff. If you're ok going through the County references and getting them right, that would be excellent. As ever, please feel free to move (or remove) images and text as needed, all good. In the same vein, should you need charts or maps (or anything else) adjusting or creating, then please let me know - always very happy to oblige.
Alagoric (talk) 15:52, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

MISCELLANEOUS[edit]

Flux Article (2016)[edit]

Wayne, if you have time, would you please better develop the Flux article, a T5 game mechanic.

One of the hard and fast rules of the wiki is no game rules or mechanics. I do not want the article to include much more than is already written. Articles for the library should never have references to game terms. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:16, 29 July 2016 (EDT)
Ok.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 01:45, 30 July 2016 (EDT)
So do you want me to provide the basic definition of the term in the article?
--WHULorigan (talk) 12:37, 30 July 2016 (EDT)
I added information to the page. Let me know if it is acceptable.
--WHULorigan (talk) 22:24, 30 July 2016 (EDT)

Looks great.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:06, 27 February 2019 (EST)

Update to the System templates (2016)[edit]

Thank you for updating the all the system templates in the world articles. It would have been better to have updated the underlying template. If you ever want assistance with that give me a poke and I will show you how to do these things. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:13, 29 June 2016 (EDT)

  • I had thought about trying that, but I didn't want to mess with something that fundamental when I wasn't quite sure what I was doing concerning templates. I'd be happy to edit the template, I just would want a little more knowledge about how they work and their syntax before I go fiddling with them.
One thing I have noticed is that the current system template automatically links some world names to associated wiki-articles, which in some cases leads to erroneous links, such as the LGG Assiniboia in the Regina system, which is linking to Assiniboia/Alpha Crucis 1621, and the companion star Shushan in the Dynam system, which links to the world Shushan/Core 2211.
--WHULorigan (talk) 09:39, 29 June 2016 (EDT)
Templates are their own programming language. Most of them are just complex enough to discourage people from trying to modify them. Your changes look simple and should be easy to make. Let me write a description of how when I get home.
- Tjoneslo (talk) 14:13, 29 June 2016 (EDT)

UWP Color Coding (2017)[edit]

Page marked as a stub article...[edit]

...advice on how to improve?

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Alasdair_Morgan_Gunn

Thanks for fixing the Limerick references (2019)[edit]

Tjoneslo (talk) 22:15, 6 April 2019 (EDT)

You're welcome. :)

Is there a need for a Limerick disambig? Are there two worlds with this name?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 06:03, 7 April 2019 (EDT)

No. The world template that you use when you are adding content to world articles has: 

{WorldAtmo|name= Limerick|Atmosphere=7},

as its defualt text, resulting in:

Limerick has a pressure of 0.71 to 1.49 atmospheres. While a Standard Atmosphere does not require survival gear this atmosphere also contains an unusual taint such as disease, a hazardous gas mix, pollutants, or sulfur compounds which requires the use of a Filter Mask. Some taints may require more protective equipment. TL–3 or more advanced survival gear is required to settle this world.

as the default in the article. In many cases it does not get updated when the article is complete, and a large number of worlds end up with Limerick's atmosphere information listed in their atmosphere section. I recognize that some of those pages are listed as under construction, but I have come across a number that are theoretically "complete", but still list Limerick's data.

A similar problem sometimes happens with the stellar data template: 

{MonostellarSystem
|name           = TBD
|primary        = G3 V 
|PrimaryNotes   = None
}

resulting in:

TBD has a solitary primary star.
TBD
Solitary G Type.jpg Type Category Mass (Sol) Temperature (K) Luminosity
G3 V Main Sequence (Dwarf) 0.99 5680 - 5720 0.96544
Unit Diameter Safe Distance Habitable Zone Jump Shadow M-Drive Limit
AU 0.0093 0.0815 0.94 - 1.66 0.93 9.3
Orbit #  *  * 3 3 7
Remarks None

The problem is that they are easy to miss when you are updating the article, as they look like completed data at a glance (especially if "TBD" has already been updated with a star name, but the G3 V has not, or the binary or trinary template is required for the world in question).

I would suggest the following for the template framework:

ATMOSPHERE: 

{WorldAtmo|name= WORLDNAME|Atmosphere=Z},

and define "Z" so that the boilerplate text shows up as "ATMOSPHERE PLACEHOLDER", or something similar so that it stands out.

and:

STELLAR DATA: 

{MonostellarSystem
|name           = TBD
|primary        = Z0 V 
|PrimaryNotes   = PLACEHOLDER
}

yielding:

No results
TBD has a solitary primary star.

Sure.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:47, 7 April 2019 (EDT)
As long as we're using something unique so it's easy to query that would be best. "Zowie" works fine because we really shouldn't see it anywhere except in the uncorrected articles. I would agree, adding a "Z" option to the different templates with the "<X> PLACEHOLDER" would be a good idea. Tjoneslo (talk) 15:00, 7 April 2019 (EDT)

I mostly want to see it get done. That's my priority that I have plugging away at for several years in earnest, a few edits at a time... Making incremental improvements based on feedback including that of MWM.

  • Greg AKA Ensign Phillips has been very active in making this happen. I am grateful to him as well.
  • I think that they are all great ideas.
  • Thank you for sharing them.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:45, 8 April 2019 (EDT)

T5 Artwork / Copyright (2021)[edit]

Marc has given us permission to use whatever art we need from the T5 core book for the wiki. Please make sure to mark the source of the artwork if you use it. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:38, 28 July 2021 (EDT)

CURRENT WORK / MESSAGES[edit]

[edit]

Found and deleted, user (IP) banned. User knew to update a template, without any links to bypass the spam tools. If you see this (or a variation) please let me know. I'll update the spam tools again. Thanks for spotting this. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:36, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

History references for articles[edit]

Before you get too much further into the rebellion era updates. The plan has been to split the era information (rebellion, TNE, milieu zero, etc) into separate namespace pages. So Milieu 1200: Rhylanor (world) for the TNE information. Then use the Milieu header template to link them together. See Traveller:Namespaces#Milieus for details. Please ask if this is very confusing.Tjoneslo (talk) 17:14, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

  • Thanks. (And thanks for the link). Yes, I am aware of the "Milieu header" namespace tag, and I have been putting it at the head of all of the updated pages. But for the moment I have been putting the articles' "era-info" into the "Expander sections" at the end of the History section, especially when there is not that much info to be had, rather than make a brand-new Milieu:XXXX page and then not know quite how I want to format it or what to put into it (Rhylanor, Porozlo, and Jae Tellona had Chris Griffen's RICE Paper data already there, so those three are rather extensive - I'll get around to doing the Milieu pages for those already existing sections). So when the Standard pages are done, I can always revisit them and make a Milieu page and pull the information out of the Expander and format the data for the new Milieu page, and then delete the Expander from the original page. (At least that is my current thinking). And in the meantime, the historical eras are still there and neatly organized for people to use.
» By the way, I am testing a new organizational tree for the pages I am doing which I think is more logical and consistent. If you look at one of the advanced pages that I have just done (like Jae Tellona (world)), take a look at the auto-generated Table of Contents, and then scroll down thru the general appearance of the article and let me know if you have any comments or criticisms. I personally think it looks better and is better organized, but I am certainly open to suggestions. --WHULorigan (talk) 21:13, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
I was just discussing with User:Alagoric (via email) about getting the T5 extensions into the world articles in some manner. I hadn't spent much time and attention on this. But you should reach out (via the talk page or email) and come to some agreement on this. I think it would be a great addition. There were some other changes he was asking about, which you two should agree on. He's looking to do an update to many world articles as well. Coordination would be key here, especially if you are updating the same set of articles. Tjoneslo (talk) 15:03, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
I agree. Will do. --WHULorigan (talk) 02:27, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

Updated Layout[edit]

Hey mate, good to make contact. Apologies I haven't been in touch sooner, I've had lots of tedious real life stuff going on over the past few days and my time - and brainpower - has been a bit limited.

It would definitely be sensible to coordinate our efforts (and apologies for any damage done). Regarding the technical stuff we should probably go over, I'm thinking it's easier to communicate via a more convenient (and slightly less public) method - email is fine if that's good for you (stewart.ade@googlemail@.com). I struggle with Discord but stupid Facebook messenger works, instant commo and all that, if preferred. More than happy to use this regular Talk method too.

Alagoric (talk) 08:37, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
Oh no problem, and no damage done. But Tjoneslo is right that if we are both going to be looking at some of these world formats we should both be going in generally the same direction, and if we know that one or the other of us has a particular "thing" that we want to see done as we do our pass and review/edit, we can keep it in mind and save each other some work. If you want (and you feel like digging around over on my Main User Page), under "WORKSPACE: Wiki Projects --> Templates & Toolkits --> WORLD DESCRIPTION FRAMEWORK TEMPLATE, you can see my tentative working framework (still evolving). The world Articles for Jae Tellona, Kegena, and Porozlo also give a general look and feel when you look at the article Table of Contents, and then the overall visual structure (Rhylanor also, but it has some extra pre-existing sections).
I don't do social media, so I'll shoot you an email either tonight or tomorrow and we can talk further and more at length. --WHULorigan (talk) 12:51, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
  1. ↑ "Jump Map API" and map location from Travellermap.com
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