User talk:Tjoneslo/archive-2019

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This page is an archive of my talk page for the topics discussed in 2019. Please do not edit this page. If you want to respond to one of these issues, please add a new topic to my talk page

Disambiguation of Ludography Cites (2019)[edit]

Thomas, we have finally found a need for further disambiguation in the ludo cites if I am not mistaken.

  • Please check out Gimmick
  • The edition parameter may need to be added since the name and version parameters are duplicates across the multiple versions of Secrets of the Ancients.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:45, 7 February 2019 (EST)
Yep. I'll take a look. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:10, 7 February 2019 (EST)
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:45, 7 February 2019 (EST)

niven chain[edit]

I apologize for the late response, I just discovered this function. I came across the "build the tools" phrase in Fleet of Worlds and it just stuck. Later I realized it also applies to the process of going from First Settlement to having a shipyard.

Do we really need two sets of nearly identical TL charts?[edit]

Right now now we two TL charts - one set with the Traveler TL and a nearly identical set with the Traveler and GURPS TLs. Is this really necessary? What real purpose does it serve? --BruceGrubb (talk) 09:51, 22 February 2019 (EST)

We really don't need both. The problem is there are five TL charts: The Classic Traveller one (which ends to TL 15), the MT one (which ends at TL 20+), the GURPS 3rd one, the GURPS 4th one, and the Traveller 5th (which ends at TL 33). And there are internal differences for each one. So there are two charts: The in-universe one that belongs in the article, and the meta-game version that translates the five different Traveller rule set descriptions. I would agree at this point the whole thing is a mess however. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:14, 22 February 2019 (EST)
Is there a way to combine them as we originally had and eliminate the redundancy? Oh if you are wondering I have a very quick and dirty conversion chart over on the GURPS wiki. Yes everything doesn't line up with regards to the individual categories but you can give people too much information and IMHO Traveler 5e has that in spades.--BruceGrubb (talk) 18:17, 22 February 2019 (EST)
Doing an update to the Traveller 5e to GURPS TL conversion page I was wondering if TNE and T4 did any changes to the Traveler TL scale. Thankfully, because MgT came out a year after GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars we don't have to worry about that one. Oh BTW can we get rid of that annoying as 7734 automated edit spam filter regarding urls? Who on Earth does that anymore?--BruceGrubb (talk) 19:33, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
The only thing the TNE and T4 books did is refine the existing TL scale by adding existing technologies missing from earlier editions. A few things were moved around because the detailed TL chart from MT got overwritten by the real world.
"A brief description...: external links by anonymous users"? This rule? In the past week it has been invoked 38 times, most of which are automated bots trying to post garbage and spam links. I understand working around this is irritating, but it does keep out junk. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:30, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

Yay, the return of the Zowie worlds (2019)[edit]

Tjoneslo (talk) 10:09, 28 March 2019 (EDT)

I'm working off this list: Canon World & System Reference Log

  • It's tedious work.
  • We can always look up their locations in the next step.
  • Your help would be appreciated.
  • Trying to correlate all of the various names and duplications is a serious task.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:12, 28 March 2019 (EDT)

I've done the initial pass on these worlds.

  • Be well.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:01, 30 March 2019 (EDT)


- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:48, 6 April 2019 (EDT)
I saw that. Thanks for your work. . Tjoneslo (talk) 22:09, 6 April 2019 (EDT)
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 05:58, 7 April 2019 (EDT)

Yay, also need to fix the Limerick's (2019)[edit] Tjoneslo (talk) 07:50, 6 April 2019 (EDT)

Are you sure?

  • I am not seeing what you are seeing...
  • We appear to have a subsector and sector entry for this world. Both the same place... 0226.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:48, 6 April 2019 (EDT)
User:WHULorigan fixed all the references this afternoon. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:09, 6 April 2019 (EDT)
Do we need a disambig page for Limerick?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 05:59, 7 April 2019 (EDT)
The issue was, like the Zowie worlds, that when the world template were copied into the pages, not all of the internal templates were updated. So there were ~80 worlds where the Atmosphere template was for "Limerick" with atmosphere 0. Rather than whatever was correct for the article. It's a simple fix and User:WHULorigan did all the grunt work. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:17, 7 April 2019 (EDT)
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:47, 7 April 2019 (EDT)

changing username (2019)[edit]

The username I want to change to is my own name, Tom Chlebus. I'm not at all sure why I felt I needed a pseudonym in the first place and I have since decided I don't want "arglark" on my subsequent contributions.

I have updated your user name to "Tom Chlebus". Your contributions to the wiki now appear as your updated user name. If you want to log into the wiki again, use the new username and your previous password. If you have any questions please ping me here. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:24, 5 May 2019 (EDT)

Thank you! Humorous note: I couldn't log in with my old username, and I couldn't get your message until I did, LOL. Fortunately trying my new username was the first thing to occur to me so it wasn't even an annoyance.

Star Notation on the World Template (2019)[edit]

Thomas, I think it's a good time to redesign the star notation on the world template.

  • As we have seen when an infobox is designed with a header as is currently done, it makes it harder for our less trained volunteers to update it.
|name           = Prilissa Primary
|primary        = K4 V 
|PrimaryNotes   = None
  • Template:BinaryStarSystem
  • I would like us to redesign this piece so we can use a normal infobox as others and separate out the header.
  • It seems prudent. Volunteers are volunteers. I have made the same corrections you have in the past a number of times.
  • The new versions can be named MonostellarSystem2 for instance.
  • Please let me know what you think.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 21:00, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

So, remove the level 3 header from the template? That makes sense. Tjoneslo (talk) 07:27, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

Please make a new version of the template without a header-3... Then we go back manually and insert new headers as we update articles... Can let Greg know when it is done. He likes updating worlds. Greg Phillips. Ensign. Otherwise we have thousands of world entries to repair... With a new version, we can do it at our own pace.

  • Thanks for your hard work.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:29, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

Canon Addition to Template:Ship summary list (2019)[edit]

Thomas, would you please add a canon column to:

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:26, 30 May 2019 (EDT)
Unfortunately you added the field without rebuilding the table. If I kick off the process it will mean no one should edit any ship articles until the regen is complete. I’ll try to kick it off tonight after you are done editing for the day. Or maybe tomorrow. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:30, 30 May 2019 (EDT)


  • Thanks for the response.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:43, 30 May 2019 (EDT)

The starships table has been rebuilt and the template has been updated. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:35, 31 May 2019 (EDT)

It doesn't appear to be populating yet.

  • Was it designed to read text or some other option?
  • Or will it just take awhile to work?
  • Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2019 (EDT) - The Starships table has completed populating with 1700+ entries. If you are looking at pages with the template, try the Purge Cache option. Tjoneslo (talk) 10:01, 31 May 2019 (EDT)

Thank you.

  • I have tried the purge option on this page: Fighter
  • It does not appear to be working yet.
  • The next and last addition would be to add the ACS categories.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2019 (EDT)

Oh, you mean the Canon column doesn't have any values. No, it doesn't because the values haven't been entered in the template on the 1784 pages. The same will be true for the size-cat field. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:26, 31 May 2019 (EDT)

No, most of the entries have it.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

I found the problem.

  • Please redesign it to accept any text, not just binary yes or no.
  • Most entries have a formulaic phrase rather than those binary entries.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:33, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

Yes, why use one word when you can use 17 to truly obfuscate to article. A review of several articles show there three phrases (with some variations). So even leaving the Canon parameter as Boolean (yes or no as the only values), we can have these phrases:
  • Published, canon design.
  • Unpublished, non-canon design.
  • Published, non-canon design.
Tjoneslo (talk) 20:30, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

I didn't pick all of that phrasing. Input from MWM and fans were the biggest factors. We deal with what we have, not perfection.

  • I recommend just leaving it as a text entry.
  • We have volunteers and we can't make them all standardize so we work clever coding and lots of clever redirects.
  • It's not optimal, but it is workable.
  • Stop thinking like a bounded engineer or computer programmer, and start thinking like a top notch military officer or prosperous CEO.
  • You can continue down the current path, but the frustration will never reduce.
  • If you become a clever problem solver and flexible people manager, your stress and frustration will reduce.
  • The mountain doesn't come to Mohammed, you go to it...
  • Your call...
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:12, 3 June 2019 (EDT)

The Template is showing the entry for the Canon field. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:09, 3 June 2019 (EDT)

Selected Craft Using Dispersed Structure Hulls (2019)[edit]

The CBPUSAL hulls have a header to collect craft using the designated hull.

  • Would you please design-write code that would allow us to input the selected hull type?
  • Some of the CBPUSAL hulls have multiple subtypes so it will take some clever but doable coding.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2019 (EDT)
Right now there are three different parameters regarding hull design
* Configuration - Primary Shape
* Streamlining - Secondary design shape
* CBPUSAL - Which seems to incorporate both of the above, but using the T5 design steps.
High Guard (p.20) which seems to be the primary design system simply uses Configuration, and notes some configuration are streamlined. The T5 Configuration (CBPUSAL), is similar to the High Guard one. So the idea would be to use the CBPUSAL in the {{{hullshape}}} (new template) or {{{hull}}} (old template). This is one of these subtle issues about trying to shift design parameter from one design system to another.
Or am I completely misunderstanding what you are on about? Tjoneslo (talk) 20:56, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

We're going to have to make decisions because there is overlap in hull categories and shape. It's fairly well mapped at Hull.

  • CBPUSAL is easy.
  • The others we or you will have to make subjective selections on.
  • Because we're talking about many versions of Traveller and often conflicting and semantically overlapping definitions.
  • Whatever decisions you make, or punt to me to make decisions to make, I will be good with. I might argue it a bit, but I'll probably just eave it alone.
  • So essentially, like the TDES selection boxes:
{{Ship summary list|name= Battleship |tdes=BB}}
  • We'll just have to select each hull type to go to a category.
  • If it's built like that, we'll simply choose:
{{Hull summary list|name= Planetoid Hull |aerodynam= Unstreamlined Hull}}
{{Hull summary list|name= Buffered Planetoid Hull |hull= Buffered Planetoid Hull}}
  • Hull summary list can pull from whichever category we ask for... (|aerodynam= OR |hull=)
  • Sound reasonable?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:19, 3 June 2019 (EDT)

Ah, yes. Building the templates should be pretty straight forward. I'll put it on the to-do list. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:44, 4 June 2019 (EDT)

Thank you.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:41, 4 June 2019 (EDT)

Adding Size-cat to Ship Summary Tables (2019)[edit]

Hi Thomas, would you please assist in adding size-cat to the Ship summary tables?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:05, 13 June 2019 (EDT)
Sorry, I thought I had explained that to you. After you make, and save, the changes to the table definition in the template, click on the "more" menu, and select the "Recreate Data" option. This will show the "Recreate Data" page. Click the Ok button to recreate the table, and generate the data.
Important Note: Please plan your updates to the cargo table definitions. Doing too many of them quickly or editing the pages which use the template while the generation is ongoing can introduce subtle and annoying errors, mostly duplicated entries.
Technical Details: Whenever you edit a template, it triggers a background task on the server to update all the articles which include the template. The background job runs every 10 minutes and processes between 100 and 200 articles per run. This is why the documentation page is separated onto the /doc page.
When you recreate the data for a cargo template, it does the same thing. The same background job reads through 100 to 200 articles per run and adds the data into the new table. For the InfoboxShip template with ~1,800 articles this takes between 1.5 and 2.5 hours to complete. If you edit any of the ship articles, the background process may create a duplicate page in the data set. If you recreate the data before the process is complete the second updates start after the first is completed.
I added the column "sizeCategory" for the "size-cat" parameter, to match the InfoboxShip2 table. It makes writing the queries for the Ship summary templates better.
Tjoneslo (talk) 05:58, 14 June 2019 (EDT)
I created the Template:Ship size categories for querying the size category. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:13, 14 June 2019 (EDT)

Ok. Thank you.

  • Recreate data and be very patient.
  • I just needed to wait.
  • I experimented with this previously to no avail, but I just needed to wait awhile for the tables to rebuild.
  • Thank you again.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:45, 14 June 2019 (EDT)

Autogenerated Library Data Entries Oriented to the Left (2019)[edit]

Thomas, can you make Template:LibraryEntries orient to the left, please.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:15, 29 June 2019 (EDT)

I fixed the Template:Libraries Entries so the text for the lists are left aligned. I also added some "superfluous" spaces to the template. This is to allow the next editor to distinguish the nested templates from one another. Please leave them there. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:14, 29 June 2019 (EDT)

Thank you.

  • Left them alone per your request.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:23, 29 June 2019 (EDT)

Socket Liferaft, Liferaft & Lifeboat (2019)[edit]

In Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide pgs, 146-147, there are three life pods (smallcraft) that need to be named and have entries created.

  • Would you like the honors of naming them?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:29, 20 October 2019 (EDT)

Thank you for thinking of me. I might be able to come up with something, but not likely on your current working schedule. Like maybe by the end of next weekend. But if they're not done by then, I'll try and come up with something. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:33, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

It's no hurry.

  • Take your time and welcome.
  • There are thousands of things to do and I will leave it for you if you'd enjoy it.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:42, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

Great Eastern class Troop Transport (2019)[edit]

It appears that you first entered this craft: Great Eastern class Troop Transport

  • It has a footnote from the Rebellion Sourcebook
  • It also appears to be close to the CT Fighting Ships troop transport, now named the Paulos class Troop Transport...
  • There is no reason why both can't be that... if that is the case.
  • Do you recall any more information about this vessel?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:44, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
I took a look through the history of both articles. I believe the origin of the Great Eastern was to be the Troop Transport from Fighting Ships. User:Jmattera added the link to the Rebellion Sourcebook and gave the class it's name. There isn't any 50-Ton troop Transport in the Rebellion Sourcebook so I'm not sure why the reference was added. So yes, we now have two ships from the same source with different names. I don't have a problem with it, given the wiki contributors are naming the ships. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:22, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

Setting (2019)[edit]

If you get a chance, please check Setting and amend with your observations.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:50, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
I took a quick read through the article. There are some larger issues that still need resolved before I feel comfortable editing that article. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:36, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

Referral Tree Category (2019)[edit]

The category that you have appended to referral trees is adding spaces at the bottom of those ship entries.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:52, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
  • Yes the spaces were the conflict between the default "add two lines to between the article and the categories" rule for articles and the referral trees not needing the extra spaces. You fixed it correctly.
  • While article naming standards are good, they are not sufficient. Categories help find and group the different article trees according to use. As a forward thought, what happens when you try to create referral trees for vehicles? For example, how do you distinguish the "referral-tree-type-MTB-Main-battle-tank" is used for?
  • Technically the referral trees are Templates and should be in the Template: namespace. For example, "Template:Referral-Tree-Type-UI-Combat-Transport-Smallcraft". This would make their use {{Referral-Tree-XXX}} (without the colon).
  • Updating that, if you want to, would be a task I would mostly hand off to AB-101. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:25, 21 October 2019 (EDT)