Difference between revisions of "User talk:Tjoneslo"

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Will you be moving this table in all the entries? [[User:BackworldTraveller|BackworldTraveller]] ([[User talk:BackworldTraveller|talk]]) 11:03, 30 May 2020 (EDT)
 
Will you be moving this table in all the entries? [[User:BackworldTraveller|BackworldTraveller]] ([[User talk:BackworldTraveller|talk]]) 11:03, 30 May 2020 (EDT)
 +
 +
: Having a template for the chart of ranks is pretty much what the Wiki templates were designed for. So every article will have the same chart and all the links are updated correctly. So Yes, I really want to add that chart to each of the articles, including the Imperial Navy one.
 +
: Do you have suggestions for improvement? Should I put it back where it was before? I was going to replace the Sunburst with the Imperial Navy insignia, and make the title yellow, to match the other Infoboxes, is that a good idea? Suggestions are welcomed and encouraged. [[User:Tjoneslo|Tjoneslo]] ([[User talk:Tjoneslo|talk]]) 14:17, 30 May 2020 (EDT)
  
 
== Comparative Ranks ==
 
== Comparative Ranks ==

Revision as of 18:17, 30 May 2020

Archive: The early years
User talk:Tjoneslo/archive-2006-2013
User talk:Tjoneslo/archive-2014
Archive: The Maksim Era
User talk:Tjoneslo/archive-2015
User talk:Tjoneslo/archive-2016
User talk:Tjoneslo/archive-2017
User talk:Tjoneslo/archive-2018

Welcome to my talk page. I you would like to leave me a message, please use the Add topic button in the menu above.

My TodoList: User:Tjoneslo/todo

Disambiguation of Ludography Cites (2019)

Thomas, we have finally found a need for further disambiguation in the ludo cites if I am not mistaken.

  • Please check out Gimmick
  • The edition parameter may need to be added since the name and version parameters are duplicates across the multiple versions of Secrets of the Ancients.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:45, 7 February 2019 (EST)
Yep. I'll take a look. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:10, 7 February 2019 (EST)
Thanks.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:45, 7 February 2019 (EST)

niven chain

I apologize for the late response, I just discovered this function. I came across the "build the tools" phrase in Fleet of Worlds and it just stuck. Later I realized it also applies to the process of going from First Settlement to having a shipyard.

Do we really need two sets of nearly identical TL charts?

Right now now we two TL charts - one set with the Traveler TL and a nearly identical set with the Traveler and GURPS TLs. Is this really necessary? What real purpose does it serve? --BruceGrubb (talk) 09:51, 22 February 2019 (EST)

We really don't need both. The problem is there are five TL charts: The Classic Traveller one (which ends to TL 15), the MT one (which ends at TL 20+), the GURPS 3rd one, the GURPS 4th one, and the Traveller 5th (which ends at TL 33). And there are internal differences for each one. So there are two charts: The in-universe one that belongs in the article, and the meta-game version that translates the five different Traveller rule set descriptions. I would agree at this point the whole thing is a mess however. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:14, 22 February 2019 (EST)
Is there a way to combine them as we originally had and eliminate the redundancy? Oh if you are wondering I have a very quick and dirty conversion chart over on the GURPS wiki. Yes everything doesn't line up with regards to the individual categories but you can give people too much information and IMHO Traveler 5e has that in spades.--BruceGrubb (talk) 18:17, 22 February 2019 (EST)
Doing an update to the Traveller 5e to GURPS TL conversion page I was wondering if TNE and T4 did any changes to the Traveler TL scale. Thankfully, because MgT came out a year after GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars we don't have to worry about that one. Oh BTW can we get rid of that annoying as 7734 automated edit spam filter regarding urls? Who on Earth does that anymore?--BruceGrubb (talk) 19:33, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
The only thing the TNE and T4 books did is refine the existing TL scale by adding existing technologies missing from earlier editions. A few things were moved around because the detailed TL chart from MT got overwritten by the real world.
"A brief description...: external links by anonymous users"? This rule? In the past week it has been invoked 38 times, most of which are automated bots trying to post garbage and spam links. I understand working around this is irritating, but it does keep out junk. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:30, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

Yay, the return of the Zowie worlds (2019)

Tjoneslo (talk) 10:09, 28 March 2019 (EDT)

I'm working off this list: Canon World & System Reference Log

  • It's tedious work.
  • We can always look up their locations in the next step.
  • Your help would be appreciated.
  • Trying to correlate all of the various names and duplications is a serious task.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:12, 28 March 2019 (EDT)

I've done the initial pass on these worlds.

  • Be well.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:01, 30 March 2019 (EDT)

Done.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:48, 6 April 2019 (EDT)
I saw that. Thanks for your work. . Tjoneslo (talk) 22:09, 6 April 2019 (EDT)
Welcome.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 05:58, 7 April 2019 (EDT)

Yay, also need to fix the Limerick's (2019)

https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/index.php?search=Limerick&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1 Tjoneslo (talk) 07:50, 6 April 2019 (EDT)

Are you sure?

  • I am not seeing what you are seeing...
  • We appear to have a subsector and sector entry for this world. Both the same place... 0226.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:48, 6 April 2019 (EDT)
User:WHULorigan fixed all the references this afternoon. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:09, 6 April 2019 (EDT)
Do we need a disambig page for Limerick?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 05:59, 7 April 2019 (EDT)
The issue was, like the Zowie worlds, that when the world template were copied into the pages, not all of the internal templates were updated. So there were ~80 worlds where the Atmosphere template was for "Limerick" with atmosphere 0. Rather than whatever was correct for the article. It's a simple fix and User:WHULorigan did all the grunt work. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:17, 7 April 2019 (EDT)
Ok
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:47, 7 April 2019 (EDT)

changing username (2019)

The username I want to change to is my own name, Tom Chlebus. I'm not at all sure why I felt I needed a pseudonym in the first place and I have since decided I don't want "arglark" on my subsequent contributions.

I have updated your user name to "Tom Chlebus". Your contributions to the wiki now appear as your updated user name. If you want to log into the wiki again, use the new username and your previous password. If you have any questions please ping me here. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:24, 5 May 2019 (EDT)

Thank you! Humorous note: I couldn't log in with my old username, and I couldn't get your message until I did, LOL. Fortunately trying my new username was the first thing to occur to me so it wasn't even an annoyance.

Star Notation on the World Template (2019)

Thomas, I think it's a good time to redesign the star notation on the world template.

  • As we have seen when an infobox is designed with a header as is currently done, it makes it harder for our less trained volunteers to update it.
{{MonostellarSystem
|name           = Prilissa Primary
|primary        = K4 V 
|PrimaryNotes   = None
}}
  • Template:BinaryStarSystem
  • I would like us to redesign this piece so we can use a normal infobox as others and separate out the header.
  • It seems prudent. Volunteers are volunteers. I have made the same corrections you have in the past a number of times.
  • The new versions can be named MonostellarSystem2 for instance.
  • Please let me know what you think.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 21:00, 24 May 2019 (EDT)
So, remove the level 3 header from the template? That makes sense. Tjoneslo (talk) 07:27, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

Please make a new version of the template without a header-3... Then we go back manually and insert new headers as we update articles... Can let Greg know when it is done. He likes updating worlds. Greg Phillips. Ensign. Otherwise we have thousands of world entries to repair... With a new version, we can do it at our own pace.

  • Thanks for your hard work.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:29, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

Canon Addition to Template:Ship summary list (2019)

Thomas, would you please add a canon column to:

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:26, 30 May 2019 (EDT)
Unfortunately you added the field without rebuilding the table. If I kick off the process it will mean no one should edit any ship articles until the regen is complete. I’ll try to kick it off tonight after you are done editing for the day. Or maybe tomorrow. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:30, 30 May 2019 (EDT)

Done.

  • Thanks for the response.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:43, 30 May 2019 (EDT)
The starships table has been rebuilt and the template has been updated. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:35, 31 May 2019 (EDT)

It doesn't appear to be populating yet.

  • Was it designed to read text or some other option?
  • Or will it just take awhile to work?
  • Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2019 (EDT)
https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Special:CargoTables/Starships - The Starships table has completed populating with 1700+ entries. If you are looking at pages with the template, try the Purge Cache option. Tjoneslo (talk) 10:01, 31 May 2019 (EDT)

Thank you.

  • I have tried the purge option on this page: Fighter
  • It does not appear to be working yet.
  • The next and last addition would be to add the ACS categories.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2019 (EDT)
Oh, you mean the Canon column doesn't have any values. No, it doesn't because the values haven't been entered in the template on the 1784 pages. The same will be true for the size-cat field. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:26, 31 May 2019 (EDT)

No, most of the entries have it.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

I found the problem.

  • Please redesign it to accept any text, not just binary yes or no.
  • Most entries have a formulaic phrase rather than those binary entries.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:33, 2 June 2019 (EDT)
Yes, why use one word when you can use 17 to truly obfuscate to article. A review of several articles show there three phrases (with some variations). So even leaving the Canon parameter as Boolean (yes or no as the only values), we can have these phrases:
  • Published, canon design.
  • Unpublished, non-canon design.
  • Published, non-canon design.
Tjoneslo (talk) 20:30, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

I didn't pick all of that phrasing. Input from MWM and fans were the biggest factors. We deal with what we have, not perfection.

  • I recommend just leaving it as a text entry.
  • We have volunteers and we can't make them all standardize so we work clever coding and lots of clever redirects.
  • It's not optimal, but it is workable.
  • Stop thinking like a bounded engineer or computer programmer, and start thinking like a top notch military officer or prosperous CEO.
  • You can continue down the current path, but the frustration will never reduce.
  • If you become a clever problem solver and flexible people manager, your stress and frustration will reduce.
  • The mountain doesn't come to Mohammed, you go to it...
  • Your call...
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:12, 3 June 2019 (EDT)
The Template is showing the entry for the Canon field. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:09, 3 June 2019 (EDT)

Selected Craft Using Dispersed Structure Hulls (2019)

The CBPUSAL hulls have a header to collect craft using the designated hull.

  • Would you please design-write code that would allow us to input the selected hull type?
  • Some of the CBPUSAL hulls have multiple subtypes so it will take some clever but doable coding.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2019 (EDT)
Right now there are three different parameters regarding hull design
* Configuration - Primary Shape
* Streamlining - Secondary design shape
* CBPUSAL - Which seems to incorporate both of the above, but using the T5 design steps.
High Guard (p.20) which seems to be the primary design system simply uses Configuration, and notes some configuration are streamlined. The T5 Configuration (CBPUSAL), is similar to the High Guard one. So the idea would be to use the CBPUSAL in the {{{hullshape}}} (new template) or {{{hull}}} (old template). This is one of these subtle issues about trying to shift design parameter from one design system to another.
Or am I completely misunderstanding what you are on about? Tjoneslo (talk) 20:56, 2 June 2019 (EDT)

We're going to have to make decisions because there is overlap in hull categories and shape. It's fairly well mapped at Hull.

  • CBPUSAL is easy.
  • The others we or you will have to make subjective selections on.
  • Because we're talking about many versions of Traveller and often conflicting and semantically overlapping definitions.
  • Whatever decisions you make, or punt to me to make decisions to make, I will be good with. I might argue it a bit, but I'll probably just eave it alone.
  • So essentially, like the TDES selection boxes:
{{Ship summary list|name= Battleship |tdes=BB}}
  • We'll just have to select each hull type to go to a category.
  • If it's built like that, we'll simply choose:
{{Hull summary list|name= Planetoid Hull |aerodynam= Unstreamlined Hull}}
{{Hull summary list|name= Buffered Planetoid Hull |hull= Buffered Planetoid Hull}}
  • Hull summary list can pull from whichever category we ask for... (|aerodynam= OR |hull=)
  • Sound reasonable?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:19, 3 June 2019 (EDT)
Ah, yes. Building the templates should be pretty straight forward. I'll put it on the to-do list. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:44, 4 June 2019 (EDT)

Thank you.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:41, 4 June 2019 (EDT)

Adding Size-cat to Ship Summary Tables (2019)

Hi Thomas, would you please assist in adding size-cat to the Ship summary tables?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:05, 13 June 2019 (EDT)
Sorry, I thought I had explained that to you. After you make, and save, the changes to the table definition in the template, click on the "more" menu, and select the "Recreate Data" option. This will show the "Recreate Data" page. Click the Ok button to recreate the table, and generate the data.
Important Note: Please plan your updates to the cargo table definitions. Doing too many of them quickly or editing the pages which use the template while the generation is ongoing can introduce subtle and annoying errors, mostly duplicated entries.
Technical Details: Whenever you edit a template, it triggers a background task on the server to update all the articles which include the template. The background job runs every 10 minutes and processes between 100 and 200 articles per run. This is why the documentation page is separated onto the /doc page.
When you recreate the data for a cargo template, it does the same thing. The same background job reads through 100 to 200 articles per run and adds the data into the new table. For the InfoboxShip template with ~1,800 articles this takes between 1.5 and 2.5 hours to complete. If you edit any of the ship articles, the background process may create a duplicate page in the data set. If you recreate the data before the process is complete the second updates start after the first is completed.
I added the column "sizeCategory" for the "size-cat" parameter, to match the InfoboxShip2 table. It makes writing the queries for the Ship summary templates better.
Tjoneslo (talk) 05:58, 14 June 2019 (EDT)
I created the Template:Ship size categories for querying the size category. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:13, 14 June 2019 (EDT)

Ok. Thank you.

  • Recreate data and be very patient.
  • I just needed to wait.
  • I experimented with this previously to no avail, but I just needed to wait awhile for the tables to rebuild.
  • Thank you again.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:45, 14 June 2019 (EDT)

Autogenerated Library Data Entries Oriented to the Left (2019)

Thomas, can you make Template:LibraryEntries orient to the left, please.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:15, 29 June 2019 (EDT)
I fixed the Template:Libraries Entries so the text for the lists are left aligned. I also added some "superfluous" spaces to the template. This is to allow the next editor to distinguish the nested templates from one another. Please leave them there. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:14, 29 June 2019 (EDT)

Thank you.

  • Left them alone per your request.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:23, 29 June 2019 (EDT)

Socket Liferaft, Liferaft & Lifeboat (2019)

In Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide pgs, 146-147, there are three life pods (smallcraft) that need to be named and have entries created.

  • Would you like the honors of naming them?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:29, 20 October 2019 (EDT)
Thank you for thinking of me. I might be able to come up with something, but not likely on your current working schedule. Like maybe by the end of next weekend. But if they're not done by then, I'll try and come up with something. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:33, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

It's no hurry.

  • Take your time and welcome.
  • There are thousands of things to do and I will leave it for you if you'd enjoy it.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:42, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

Great Eastern class Troop Transport (2019)

It appears that you first entered this craft: Great Eastern class Troop Transport

  • It has a footnote from the Rebellion Sourcebook
  • It also appears to be close to the CT Fighting Ships troop transport, now named the Paulos class Troop Transport...
  • There is no reason why both can't be that... if that is the case.
  • Do you recall any more information about this vessel?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:44, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
I took a look through the history of both articles. I believe the origin of the Great Eastern was to be the Troop Transport from Fighting Ships. User:Jmattera added the link to the Rebellion Sourcebook and gave the class it's name. There isn't any 50-Ton troop Transport in the Rebellion Sourcebook so I'm not sure why the reference was added. So yes, we now have two ships from the same source with different names. I don't have a problem with it, given the wiki contributors are naming the ships. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:22, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

Setting (2019)

If you get a chance, please check Setting and amend with your observations.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:50, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
I took a quick read through the article. There are some larger issues that still need resolved before I feel comfortable editing that article. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:36, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

Referral Tree Category (2019)

The category that you have appended to referral trees is adding spaces at the bottom of those ship entries.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:52, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
  • Yes the spaces were the conflict between the default "add two lines to between the article and the categories" rule for articles and the referral trees not needing the extra spaces. You fixed it correctly.
  • While article naming standards are good, they are not sufficient. Categories help find and group the different article trees according to use. As a forward thought, what happens when you try to create referral trees for vehicles? For example, how do you distinguish the "referral-tree-type-MTB-Main-battle-tank" is used for?
  • Technically the referral trees are Templates and should be in the Template: namespace. For example, "Template:Referral-Tree-Type-UI-Combat-Transport-Smallcraft". This would make their use {{Referral-Tree-XXX}} (without the colon).
  • Updating that, if you want to, would be a task I would mostly hand off to AB-101. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:25, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

"Show/Hide" Functionality (2020)

Since the interface update on the wiki, the "show/hide" functionality on some page entries has apparently been disabled. For Example, see: Margaret Yetrina Tukera. Under "History & Background (Dossier)" there are the show/hide text headings "Rebellion Era (Click Show to reveal)" and "Virus/Collapse (Click Show to reveal)", but the toggle to actually show/reveal the underlying hidden text is missing. --WHULorigan (talk) 12:56, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

That was a custom set of JavaScript code I had to delete because it was out of date and breaking other things. I need to find a replacement and put it back in. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:39, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Let me know the new syntax when you do; there are several pages I would like to fix. --WHULorigan (talk) 15:21, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
I have restored the previous functionality and it should just now work as before. You may need to do a page reload to pick up the restored JavaScript. Tjoneslo (talk) 12:44, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Thanks. Seems to be working fine. --WHULorigan (talk) 14:05, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Corridor Main

The Corridor Main (a main in the Corridor Sector) is being redirected to Corridor Run (SR), a trace in the Solomani Rim Sector. Can this/Should this be undone?

Related to that - The corridor main appears to have various subsections: A Trace from Mowanda to Wal-ta-ka including Atsah; a cluster with Drayne and Kaasu; the Depot Cluster; and a longer trace along the border. Any suggestions on whether these should be dealt with as a single item or as a series of smaller groups? BackworldTraveller (talk) 08:29, 7 May 2020 (EDT) n.b. The Corridor Sector Data page has no reference to a Corridor Main. BackworldTraveller (talk) 08:52, 7 May 2020 (EDT)

The problem is there isn't a Main (a collection of 50+ stars connected by a jump-1) in Corridor. Sashrakusha subsector holds part of the Vilani Main. but the rest are small traces and clusters. There was a project to name each of these across the whole of the Imperium. I would have to look through my references to see if Corridor sector was ever completed. So from that point of view, the current setup is correct. If you'd like to name and catalog the different clusters in Corridor, please feel free. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:55, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
The Corridor Main (or Corridor Run) is not an astrographic feature with Corridor Sector. There are some circumstances in clusters/mains that take a very reasonable name that could a might be misleading in their locations within Charted Space. Ssteve (talk) 15:22, 9 May 2020 (EDT)
I think I've got rid of all the 'Corridor Main' references in the top 8 subsectors and replaced them with references to associated clusters, traces, etc. BackworldTraveller (talk) 14:30, 14 May 2020 (EDT)

Use of 'Coreward'

Another that springs to mind is the use of "coreward"; is that the direction toward the center of the Galaxy or the direction towards Core Sector? Its all in the context and in the mind of the reader. Ssteve (talk) 15:22, 9 May 2020 (EDT)

For 'Astrographic' sections, 'Coreward' I've used refers to the Galaxy. For polities, cultures, etc it can point to the centre of the Imperium, the centre of the Vargr Extents etc depending on the context as you suggest. From Million Subsector, Coreward can be towards the Galactic Centre, the Imperial Core (Trailing) or the Regency Core (Spinward). Hopefully we have thoughtful readers? BackworldTraveller (talk) 14:30, 14 May 2020 (EDT)

Other Corridor Issues

The main Corridor page appears to have lumped the entire Imperial presence in the sector into the Lancian Cultural Region. This then seems to filter down into the subsector descriptions too. The Lancian Cultural Region should only include some of those worlds on the Coreward side of the great rift. The actual corridor is just Imperial. BackworldTraveller (talk) 08:52, 7 May 2020 (EDT)

If you want to take on the job of fixing that it would be appreciated. I agree with your assessment. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:57, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
No, wait. The problem of identifying the Third Imperium in the corridor sector as Lancian is a bug in the code that generates those summaries. I may have fixed it since then, but I'll take another look through the code. The text of the summary lives in a "<page>/summary" article so a bot can automatically update it. I'm currently waiting for one last set of updates to the Two Thousand worlds to run the update process again. I used to ask people not to update the the summary pages because the upload bot would overwrite the changes, But the process is run so infrequently these days, a manual update to correct issues isn't a bad idea. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:04, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
If this is going to go when you run the automated script then this doesn't seem a great option given the number of worlds affected. BackworldTraveller (talk) 17:47, 14 May 2020 (EDT)

Gazelle-Class Close Escorts

The Gazelle class has, yet again, had a duplicate page created (this time for the T5 version)...is this deliberate? BackworldTraveller (talk) 10:02, 8 May 2020 (EDT)

There are two pages: Gazelle-Class Close Escorts is an article about a publication about the Gazelle, and Gazelle class Close Escort is an article about the Gazelle ship in the library. Yes, they are close in name, but cover very different things. Is there another article? Tjoneslo (talk) 18:52, 8 May 2020 (EDT)
That is true. Issue is a red-herring BackworldTraveller (talk) 01:06, 9 May 2020 (EDT)

Gabrael

I've updated Gabrael details and the script on line 1 no longer returns any results...I didn't touch that. Any ideas? I admit I changed two /data characters, but that did not have an immediate disastrous effect, nor has it had an immediate restorative effect when undone. BackworldTraveller (talk) 12:03, 8 May 2020 (EDT)

You have uncovered a long-time bug in the Template:StellarData, which stores the data into the underlying cargo table. This has been broken since 2016. I've fixed the problem and regenerating the data. This should take about an hour or so. I'll check again later tonight to verify this has been fixed. Tjoneslo (talk) 19:29, 8 May 2020 (EDT)

Bug in CenturyBox

This is assigning "nd" to "12" instead of "th". I suspect the same for 11 and 13. i.e. CenturyBox|11 --> 12nd. BackworldTraveller (talk) 03:43, 10 May 2020 (EDT)

Thanks for pointing this out. This has been fixed. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:09, 10 May 2020 (EDT)

Copyright Question

Is there any copyright agreement in place to use the animals picture from the Mongoose book (p104)? BackworldTraveller (talk) 13:00, 10 May 2020 (EDT)

Yes and no. Maksim had a discussion with Matt (at Mongoose) about using the Mongoose material in the wiki. The details in are on Copyright page. The concern from myself and other wiki stewards was we don't have a way of enforcing the limitations. So please use discretion. If you upload pictures, please make sure to include the {{Ludography cite...}} in the description so we can find the pictures from the books. Tjoneslo (talk) 15:17, 10 May 2020 (EDT)

Citing "High Guard" from Mongoose

What is the correct form of such a citation I used (which didn't work) {{Page cite|High Guard|Version=Mongoose Traveller|Page=216-224}} BackworldTraveller (talk) 12:15, 11 May 2020 (EDT)

All of the Mongoose 2nd edition books should be cited as "version=New Traveller". All of the Mongoose 1st edition books are "version=Mongoose Traveller". This also applies to the Ludography cite. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:33, 11 May 2020 (EDT)

Vargr States in Million Sector pre-420

Looking at the dot-maps provided in Mongoose's Deneb Sector book, there were a series of Vargr states in Million sector between 100 and 420...none named. I was looking to update the subsector history.

  • 100: Unekh+Talon+Akkip+Fel+Ikhaba+Oluk Dzas+Aerfor
  • 210: (a) Unekh+Talon+Fosfog and (b) Fel+Nurara+Hammand+Arelshanu+Oluk Dzas+Aerfor
  • 330: Fosfog+495-524+Metare
  • 420: Fosfog+495-524+Metare+Fel

There seem to be raids but no stable multi-world states in the civil war period.There is then a long hiatus until Augurgh forms his alliance sometime in the late 1090's at the earliest until its end in 1143.

How does the Wiki Editorial Team suggest that this be described? Pick a random Aekhu name for the 1st entity; split it into two - one getting a new name for the 2nd; with the Fosfog part struggling on (new name now Talon has gone?) for the 330-420 periods?

BackworldTraveller (talk) 13:52, 11 May 2020 (EDT)

Send a note to User:Rje, the author of that book, and see if he has a suggestion. Otherwise your idea sounds fine. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:35, 11 May 2020 (EDT)

I've done something wrong!!

The Aasish Cluster and the Ian-Irasumshu Star Group don't seem to be displaying the worlds tagged with Category: XXX worlds entries, despite the category pages existing. Any ideas? BackworldTraveller (talk) 14:34, 14 May 2020 (EDT) Ditto Naadi Cluster BackworldTraveller (talk) 14:36, 14 May 2020 (EDT)

You have not done anything wrong. The system has several internal caches which don't always update as quickly as you might like. In the menu at the top of the page, under "more" there should be an option "Purge Cache". When you are on the page, select this option. It will clear the cached (empty) results and show you the list of worlds. If you can't find that option let me know and I'll walk you through the process of finishing the registration to enable it. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:14, 14 May 2020 (EDT)
Brilliant - Thanks BackworldTraveller (talk) 17:11, 14 May 2020 (EDT)

Template:WorldHydro

The Template:WorldHydro doesn't take an Atmosphere parameter and thus doesn't differentiate between water oceans on atmospheres 1-A and fluid oceans on atmospheres B and C. Can this be amended? Default to water if no atmosphere is supplied? BackworldTraveller (talk) 03:38, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

Template:WorldAtmo

The WorldAtmo template has no Temperature parameter and thus makes statements about the required level of protective equipment that may be untrue for worlds noted as colder or warmer than normal. Can this be amended? BackworldTraveller (talk) 03:40, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

The Template:WorldAtmo simply copies the text from the Atmosphere/summary, specifically the Summary Synopsis Paragraph cell from the table. The same with the Template:WorldHydro. These were part of a project to create a single world description paragraph from the extended UWP for the world articles. The Trade codes summary are another part of this as well. But the project is still incomplete. The challenge with the temperature is most of the worlds don't have an orbital location noted in their UWP data, and are simply assumed to be in the Habitable Zone. So worlds not in the habitable zone and having temperature extremes limit habitability (despite other factors) are an exception and need to be noted by the article author, rather than a automated generator. But finishing off the whole paragraph from UWP is on my to-do list, along with many other projects. Tjoneslo (talk) 10:28, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

Template:WorldSize

For Size=8, could a comment noting that "Vessels with only 1G of thrust should check with local starport authorities before attempting to land using emergency power"?
For size 9+, could a comment noting that "Vessels with only 1G of thrust should not make surface landings without ensuring that there is a local means of providing additional take-off thrust"? BackworldTraveller (talk) 04:22, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

These comments are all stored Planetary Size/summary page. Update the summary field to have these comments appear. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:09, 15 May 2020 (EDT)
Done BackworldTraveller (talk) 14:17, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

COTI

Is COTI admitting members? It said (3 days ago) that I should wait for a mail, and I'm still waiting. BackworldTraveller (talk) 06:46, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

It should be. I just fixed this last weekend. If you haven't gotten an email it means you either tried to use one of the forbidden ones, or the email got eaten by a spam filter. If you log back into the site, go to the control panel, and try and reset your email address it will send you another confirmation email. If that doesn't work, email me Special:EmailUser/Tjoneslo and I'll see if I can figure it out from there. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:07, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

Kishkii's route

To arrive at Trin in 1139, and to have started in the Ziru Sirka, Kishkii must have passed through Corridor.

Has any consensus been reached whether it came alone (in which case it would be able to proceed at J4) or accompanied (when it will get slowed to J3 or J2...J1 vessels can't cross the gaps between clusters on-route)? At J2, pre abandonment it can't have crossed from Atsah-->Spinward without crossing at least one system with a naval base, but the abandonment makes a hole. The implication would be that if it were a fleet it would have been seen (but not necessarily understood) at Imlaar, Giikusu or Lan-chou by the RQS in mid 1138. After that it is inside the "Safe" and can wilderness refuel the whole way to Trin without touching a base until Inkekush or Saguenay. If it were jump-4, it could leapfrog the frontier zone entirely from Dunmag to Piram and would never have been seen. It does mean that it would/could have passed through Antra later though. Any suggestions? BackworldTraveller (talk) 09:09, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

It was probably a combination of things. There was undoubtedly several vampire fleets making their way through the gap between the Windhorn Rift and the Great Rift in the 1135-1140 time frame. While the TNE books are thin on information, the Vargr must have been mounting some effort to fight back. First because they thought the ships were Imperial ones attempting to take back the territory they lost, then later simply to stop the invasion / death toll. I think we can assume the Vampire in fleets and individuals were all the way to the Regency border, but usually damaged by the time they got there.
My thought would be start closer to the Great Rift outside the Regency border, like Khishuda => Erita => Torm => Rolvaag => Verd => Bishop => Sipedon => Briaxis => Furens => Trin (34 parsecs — 9 jumps). No high population worlds, only one scout base. All gas giant refueling, and really difficult to catch moving at that pace. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:54, 15 May 2020 (EDT)
Another thought ocurrs to me as well. The Kishkii may not have had to cross the whole distance. It may have been one of the ships in the Corridor Depot or one of the other naval bases. The Vargr or Human crew were attempting to refurbish / rearm the ship when the virus came a took it over. Then it heads to Trin from there. Tjoneslo (talk) 17:57, 15 May 2020 (EDT)
It is stated that Kishkii's route crossed 4 sectors...Vland, Corridor, Deneb, Spinward Marches are implied. There is quite detailed info about initial Virus spread in Khouth subsector (1137-1140+) and Million (1143ish), Antra (1138 for one Suicider accident, then later) and Atsah (starting 1139 except Kishkii). After that it goes very vague...unsurprisingly. I've two parties that are operating in 1138 in Antra and million respectively...and I'm trying to pull the details out of ???. Also the Red Pelts are noted as crossing the post virus wilds yet they actually arrive before Virus really strikes (which is interesting). Notes imply that by the mid-late-1140s were generating about 5-6 incursions on the frontier per week (3/week for 61st Fleet is stated) or about 250-300 per year. This can be sustained for a long time even without building a thing because of the huge amounts of merchant traffic in circulation before the war. What is astonishing/saddening is the pathetic and half-hearted response of the Regency in the first 5 years or so. The Mikesh/Khouth pair of losses alone makes Trin look trivial. BackworldTraveller (talk) 18:20, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

Mistake in Page Title

I have accidentally added a hyphen in the page ""Vice-Admiral" which should be titled "Vice Admiral". Can the is be corrected please? BackworldTraveller (talk) 15:11, 18 May 2020 (EDT)

Fixing the page title requires moving the page. Under the "More" option at the top of the page select "Move". This will give you the option of entering the new page title. This is the preferred method of fixing page titles as it keeps the page history, the list of changes, to the page, with the page for everyone to view. Tjoneslo (talk) 17:24, 18 May 2020 (EDT)
OK - Got the process sorted! BackworldTraveller (talk) 02:15, 22 May 2020 (EDT)

Violante (world)

{{StellarDataQuery|name= {{World|Violante|Spinward Marches|Aramis|2708}} }} yields 'no results' - and presumably has done so for some time. Best way of debugging? BackworldTraveller (talk) 06:56, 21 May 2020 (EDT)

You remember the problem above with the StellarData template. This is an effect of that. A quick use of the "Purge Cache" resolved the problem. If you encounter another one, try that, and if it doesn't work, try editing / saving the data page ("World Name (world)/data") and trying the purge again. If neither of those works, let me know. Tjoneslo (talk) 19:17, 21 May 2020 (EDT)
Thanks BackworldTraveller (talk) 02:15, 22 May 2020 (EDT)

Prison Camp and Prison World

Should these pages be merged? BackworldTraveller (talk) 08:00, 21 May 2020 (EDT)

Yes, they should be. Since Prison Camp is the empty one, redirect that to the Prison World. Though neither is quite correct. Tjoneslo (talk) 19:18, 21 May 2020 (EDT)
Done the redirect. Not sure on the "Correct" definition BackworldTraveller (talk) 02:15, 22 May 2020 (EDT)

Ministry of Justice

The MoJ is listed in the Imperial Bureaucracy page as

A2. Ministry of Justice (MOJ): Exercises authority over violations of Imperial law.

  • Imperial Inquisitorial Branch
  • Imperial Penal System
  • Justice Special Branch (JSB)
  • Sector Court Branches
  • Supreme Court of the Third Imperium

However, looking through the details of the system in Nobles and Agent books, I can see no reference to many of these.

Imperial Inquisitorial Branch

This is presumably the network of agents appointed by the MoJ sector courts. This has been detailed as "Inquisitorial agents" in the Ministry of Justice entry. A logical deduction from the information available.

Imperial Penal System

This is described as the network of Imperial Exile Worlds, Prison Worlds and Prisons that the Imperium controls. Again a logical extension of data given elsewhere

Justice Special Branch

As this is red-linked, whoever set this up intended to detail whatever this is. How does this differ from the Imperial Inquisitorial Branch? I'm not sure what the "High Passage 1" article wrote up. Does anyone have a copy that could be summarised?

Sector Court Branches

These are explained in Nobles and are fairly clear.

Supreme Court of the Third Imperium

It is explicitly stated that there is no court of appeal. This, therefore, cannot exist as an appellate court. And the Imperial High Court is part of the Criminal Justice System. Isn't this superfluous?

BackworldTraveller (talk) 06:18, 26 May 2020 (EDT)

These are questions that need to be poised to the wider community (CotI, TML, Facebook), as I don't have quick or easy answers. In reading through the page history it seems Maksim was simply adding things that "made sense" based upon the different models of governments, without having finished the plan of how they actually relate to either the canon or each other. For the Supreme Court, the Emperor serves as the final authority for all matters of the Imperium. There is at least one case of a Noble being accuse of a high crime having the emperor hear the case. The noble got life in prison and promptly escaped. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:51, 26 May 2020 (EDT)
Having the venue of the trial changed isn't appeals. And Peers are entitled to different justice standards anyway. BackworldTraveller (talk) 02:02, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
I'm agreeing there isn't a "Supreme Court of the Imperium". Each world will have their own justice system with no appeal beyond that. If you are a peer, or have one in your debt, you can appeal there, outside of the normal course of justice, which, in theory, goes all the way to the Emperor. But any of the peers can simply render judgement. Rule of Men, not Laws. Precedence is important but not the final word. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:59, 27 May 2020 (EDT)

Disclaimer template required?

I have added Black Death and Scarlet fever entries. Do we need a disclaimer on the pages to indicate that we are not a medical reference site? If so, can we set up an appropriate template? BackworldTraveller (talk) 02:00, 27 May 2020 (EDT)

I read through the two articles. The general policy has been if you are borrowing from real world articles (like these), include a wikipedia template under the references header: {{wikipedia|Yersinia pestis}} and {{wikipedia|Scarlet fever}} respectively. The other thing to keep in mind is this should be a game reference. So a lot of details isn't always needed. I've added the wikipedia templates. I also have a strong preference for paragraphs over lists, but that's purely a personal preference. Tjoneslo (talk) 19:10, 27 May 2020 (EDT)

Core Rules cite

The cite of "Core Rules" with version "Mongoose Traveller" seems to reference the German translation. Is this deliberate? BackworldTraveller (talk) 12:18, 29 May 2020 (EDT)

They were both wrong. The Mongoose Traveller book should be "Core Rulebook", and the article has been updated. The New Traveller book is "Core Rule Book", and probably should be "Core Rulebook". The Germain translation has been updated to "Grundregelwerk". Tjoneslo (talk) 19:13, 29 May 2020 (EDT)

Removal of rank chart from Rank descriptions

Will you be moving this table in all the entries? BackworldTraveller (talk) 11:03, 30 May 2020 (EDT)

Having a template for the chart of ranks is pretty much what the Wiki templates were designed for. So every article will have the same chart and all the links are updated correctly. So Yes, I really want to add that chart to each of the articles, including the Imperial Navy one.
Do you have suggestions for improvement? Should I put it back where it was before? I was going to replace the Sunburst with the Imperial Navy insignia, and make the title yellow, to match the other Infoboxes, is that a good idea? Suggestions are welcomed and encouraged. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:17, 30 May 2020 (EDT)

Comparative Ranks

The ranks O1..Ox for each service are (per Megatraveller) seriously out of kilter above O8.

The Subsector leader of the IN is Fleet Admiral (O8 - Baronet) with the sector equivalent being (O9 - Baron) and the imperium wide leader being (O10 - Duke)

The equivalent for the IM is (reasonably) Subsector Marshal (O8 - Knight) and imperium wide at Marshal of the Corps at (O9-Viscount)

The equivalent for the Army is Subsector Marshal (O11 - Baron); Sector Grand Marshal (O12 - Baron) and Marshal of the Unified Armies (O12+ - Count)

I suspect that this is why Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral were introduced...but I have no idea of the actuality.

Senior Flag Officer (Branch) - O8 Flag Officer (Sector) (Branch) - O9

How do you want these to get shown in the hierarchy? (if at all)

BackworldTraveller (talk) 11:50, 30 May 2020 (EDT)

See Talk:Imperial Navy, last entry. There are some canon references to the Rear and Vice Admirals which are never expanded on in the rules. Quoting from the post by User:WHULorigan:
The Imperial Navy is large enough (and Imperium-wide) to justify the upper level Flag Ranks. The Fleet Ranks ("Rear-", "Vice-", and "Fleet-") for actual fighting-fleet commands and Admiralty-Staff appointments, and the "Sector-" and "Grand-" Ranks for the political-level appointments. It also puts the Navy on a par with the Army which has the O11 "Field Marshal" Rank.
The Grand Fleet book three things to this list, two of which you expand on above.
  1. It adds Staff Admiral, also know as the Senior Flag Officer(Branch) who is equal in rank to a Sector admiral - O9 in the MT ranking system. These are the Admirals in charge of the other branches of the sector level fleet.
  2. It adds Subsector Admiral without giving it a rank
  3. It notes, like you do, there are two kinds of Admirals (Fleet, Subsector) are fighting admirals, and Sector and Grand Admirals are political appointments.
My thought on this would be: Let's keep the table as the MT rules have it (O8 - Fleet, O9 - Sector, O10 - Grand). Update the text of the articles to note the O8 Fleet admirals are the Fighting admirals and there is a recognized hierarchy within the sector fleets, and the Fleet admirals are sometimes given different titles to distinguish them: In order they are: Fleet Admiral, Rear Admiral, and Vice admiral.
The Sector Admiralty (O9) has a similar split of the Staff Admirals (Senior Flag Officer) and Sector Admiral.
The question then becomes, which comes first: The Naval Promotion or the investiture with noble rank? Thoughts?
- Tjoneslo (talk) 14:11, 30 May 2020 (EDT)
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