User talk:Tjoneslo

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Contents

2014[edit]

Backup of Wiki data?[edit]

Is there some means for me to make a backup of everything in my SBRD campaign wiki?

Thanks.

SpaceBadger (talk) 21:09, 9 August 2014 (EDT)

Similar Wiki for not-really-Traveller game?[edit]

I am planning to run a new game for my kids here at home, possibly to be expanded to other players via PbP later, but it is only barely related to Traveller so I don't think I can run it here. It will be a mystery/detective game with some supernatural elements, using Traveller rules plus houserules, but I don't know if that is enough connection to run a campaign wiki here.

I have experimented with the Wiki at Obsidian Portal, but maybe I am spoiled by the excellent facility you provide here, as I am finding myself disappointed in many aspects of that wiki by comparison.

Two questions, I guess: 1) Is the use of Traveller rules enough of a connection to allow use of a campaign wiki here? 2) If not, do you have any suggestions for some other wiki I could use that works somewhat like what you have set up here in the Traveller wiki?

Thanks, SpaceBadger (talk) 04:31, 20 October 2014 (EDT)

Thanks, Thomas. Sounds like I need to look at Wikia. SpaceBadger (talk) 00:56, 21 October 2014 (EDT)

2015[edit]

New User Maksim-Smelchak[edit]

Hi Thomas, I finished porting over the High Tortuga aliens. I remember reading somewhere that you had that as a future task. I am still cleaning up the entries though.

You're very welcome, Thomas. I mostly wanted to be in contact to make sure I am following the rules that you set down for the site. I've read all the guidelines and have experience with Wikis. Please contact me if I'm doing anything wrong. I want to be a cooperative member of the community.

  • Maksim-Smelchak. 10:03am, 9 January 2015 (PST)

Front Page Changes[edit]

Hi Thomas. I made a few front page changes based on some direction from FFE through one of its representatives. Thanks for allowing me to contribute to the Traveler Wiki. I'm happy to have you editing what I contribute and making sure I am compliant with the Wiki, writing guidelines, and FFE policies. I follow your contributions and my mistakes that you correct. Thanks again! Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:12, 23 January 2015 (EST)

"Eras & Editions" Table[edit]

Hi Tjoneslo, no worries about the Milieus page. I built a table entitled "Eras & Editions" on my user discussion page that I'd like you to look at when you get a chance. That's what I was doing. I'd love to hear your feedback. I've always wanted to build a table with that data. It can be highly confusing for even an experienced Traveller player (...since the late 1970's in my case).

If you like it, where does that table belong? On the Milieu's page? Somewhere else?  

Thanks. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:12, 29 January 2015 (EST)

Proper Way to Delete Pages[edit]

Hi Tjoneslo, I made some mistakes on the Gypsy Knights Games product pages that I will soon correct (You noticed the mistakes as well as the owner when I asked him to proof them).

How do I correctly (properly) get the mistake pages deleted?

I seem to recall reading about a {Recommended Deletion} tag or something like it... Please advise.

Thanks for all of your help and guidance. It is greatly appreciated. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:30, 5 February 2015 (EST)

Language Assistance Offer[edit]

Hi Tjoneslo, I noticed on the "Lost" Books page that user "178.237.109.139" had posted a large section in the PORTUGUESE language. I am lucky to be able to read several European languages with great fluency and would be happy to help you with any translation work you might desire. I used to be a professional translator. I can read-write Spanish, Russian, Ukrainian, Hebrew, Arabic, and several others with great levels of fluency. That post looks like SPAM although it might have been the kernel of something more interesting. It looks like a military catalogue blurb. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:40, 12 February 2015 (EST)

P.S. If you have any other projects that I may assist with, I would be happy to pool our efforts. I am trying to finish up the Gypsy Knights Games pages right now. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:40, 12 February 2015 (EST)

T-Wiki Categories & Subcategories: How? Best Practices? Preferences?[edit]

Hi Tjoneslo, how do I build out Categories & Subcategories? I did read the FAQ for the Wiki, but I'm mostly asking to be consistent with past efforts and because I think you'd know your own preferences and best practices better than anything that was pre-written. Thank you! I've super appreciated all of your previous help. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:09, 24 February 2015 (EST).

The original tendency for creating categories was to use simple, one word items (e.g. canon, ships, dictionary). Wikipedia (which we've tried to emulate in some ways, used longer phrases (e.g. "Worlds with a Scout Base") categories. I still have a preference for the shorter names, but in reality use what makes the most sense and is understandable for the name of a group of things (or ideas).
For sub-categories, it is relatively easier to update them if we desire a change to category hierarchy. Also it's not tied to a strict hierarchy. So, for example, the "Aslan Clans" category can belong to both the "Aslan" and the "Organization" category. Now we can correctly find the group from both places.
I think is is possible to overdo number of categories. So if an article is put into one sub category, it doesn't necessarily need to also be in all the parent categories too. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:00, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Administrator to Cull SPAM[edit]

Hi Tjoneslo, I will volunteer to become an administrator, if you could use another one, and block SPAM'ers of which there have been a large number today. I'd be happy to follow your guidelines for blocking SPAM'ers. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:18, 5 March 2015 (EST)

Thank you for your offer. The problem is manually deleting the pages is an endless game of chasing your own tail. This Wiki has installed Abuse Filter extension. This has been working to stop a great deal of spam for a long time. This new wave simply needs some new, adjusted, filters to prevent it from showing up in the first place. The problem is it may prevent edits from some users. Well, the system warns the user they are triggering an abuse filter. Then allows the edit to go through. I'm going to give the new filters a day or two, and see if anything breaks. If you run into any problems please let me know. Tjoneslo (talk) 19:51, 5 March 2015 (EST)

Offer to Coordinate & Assist / Teamwork[edit]

Hi Tjoneslo, if uyou have any ideas how to work better as a team or know of ways we can support each other, please E=mail, PM, IM, or otherwise contact me. I would like to support your efforts as we did for the Beastmaker simple animal entries. I thought that worked out well.

If you get a chance, please E-mail me offboard and educate me more about the sector and subsector entries you have been making. I'd like to learn more and be more supportive of your goals and efforts. Thanks! Sincerely, Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:54, 29 March 2015 (EDT)

PBG Juxtaposition[edit]

As I go through Zarushagar Sector, I am increasingly noticing a common mistake: the PBG values are switched. Since the infobox for a world reads PGB and most entries including the T5SS read PBG, the B and G values have been switched on nearly 75% of the entries. Yes, only about 25% of them are correct according to T5SS. I stopped tracking it after about 50 entries so I don't know the exact statistical breakdown. Still, in my limited sampling, over 75% were juxtaposed incorrectly. This might call for some changes to be made to the template to avoid this very common error. Just bringing it to your attention. Thanks. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 14:50, 18 May 2015 (EDT)

I will look for an example. I didn't do many today. I mostly created and edited new entries. What I mean is, if a planet had a PBG value of 715. It came out as:
  • p 7
  • g 1
  • b 5

Instead of:

  • p 7
  • g 5
  • b 1

Or:

  • p 7
  • b 1
  • g 5
So, values are getting switched. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:07, 18 May 2015 (EDT)

Daily Spreadsheet Log Offer[edit]

> Second, I would like to ask to try the "Show Preview" functionality when you edit articles. I know it is a different workflow. Do this by pressing the "Show Preview" button (rather than the "Save Page" button) while you are editing the article. This will show the article as it would appear, and you can continue to edit it. The reasons for this is to keep the Recent Changes list a little smaller, which makes reviewing it for changes (like the talk page requests) faster and easier. Thanks. Tjoneslo (talk) 18:47, 6 May 2015 (EDT)

Tjoneslo, I've tried the "Show Preview" functionality a number of times and I am not having any luck keeping up the speed and accuracy with which I usually edit and add to the site. I will keep trying and see if I can increase my technical proficiency to your level, but in the mean time, I thought I'd offer you this: Perhaps I can input daily data into a spreadsheet to make your log easier to keep. I will keep trying, but I wanted to try to offer you something else in appreciation for what you've done since I am having difficulty getting my technical proficiency to the desired level requested by you. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:08, 1 June 2015 (EDT)

Trade Classification Codes[edit]

Thank you User:Tjoneslo, for turning my trade classification code summaries into a coded app. I bet that will be a great asset for the Wiki. Appreciate your thoughtfulness and hard work. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:18, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

Thanks for your catch on the incorrect fluid world summary (I had it labeled with H2O when it should have been non-H20). I'd like to collaborate more on this kind of asset for the Traveller wiki and its users. If you have any ideas, let's collaborate and make them happen. Thanks, Thomas! Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:48, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

Category Imperial Research Station vs Worlds with a research station[edit]

It appears that there is some overlap between the two categories. Does it make more sense to list the specific worlds on the world page and just retain the other category for specific Imperial Research Stations? The other possibility would be to combine the two categories. Your thoughts? Jmattera (talk) 20:41, 29 July 2015 (EDT)

I think the Category: Imperial Research Station should be for the articles about the research station(s). Category: Worlds with a research station should be for the worlds where the Research Station(s) are located. There really shouldn't be any overlap between these two. Tjoneslo (talk) 01:52, 30 July 2015 (EDT)

PBG Listing in UWP[edit]

Hi User: Tjoneslo, I have a request for you. Would you please list future UWP's with the PBG in that order? It drastically reduces the amount of key strokes I need to perform when updating files. Thank you. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:42, 19 August 2015 (EDT)

List where? In the {{UWP}} template? or in some other list I've been creating?
When you create new worlds. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 13:19, 19 August 2015 (EDT)
{{UWP |name= |uc = |popc = |zonec = green |ui= |u0= |u1= |alg = |class = |trade = |nblty = |bases =
|primary = 
|belts   = 
|GGcount = 

Also, Spinward Marches Sector will be done soon. What would you like me to do next? Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:42, 19 August 2015 (EDT)

I'm assuming you've completed the Solomani Rim Sector worlds. There are the Domain of Ilelish worlds you put in with incomplete templates that could be updated too. And you have very long list incomplete projects on your user page. All of which look good to me, so no real preference. Tjoneslo (talk) 13:16, 19 August 2015 (EDT)

OK. Thanks! Solomani Rim is done. And everything needs updating. Such is the life. LOL Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 13:19, 19 August 2015 (EDT)

2016[edit]

Greetings! And an inquiry into projects...[edit]

Hi User: Tjoneslo, just wanted to check in and see if there were any projects you'd like to see get done. I have been working on a variety of projects and would love to assist you in your goals as well. Wanted to keep the communication open. Best regards.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:37, 17 March 2016 (EDT)

Thank you![edit]

Hi User: Tjoneslo, very impressed with the coding you are presently doing. Please let me know how and if I can assist you in any way. No job too big or small. Appreciated your help a bit back with the sector or two of Fornast you worked on. Would very much like us to be cooperative, collaborative, and friendly colleagues... As well as my acknowledgement of your authority as Wiki head. I have a new cell phone and would be happy to give you my number for text communication if that's easier for you. Thanks again!

SectorWorlds2?[edit]

The SectorWorlds2 utility is not working as of today. I started noticing it while working on Pasdaruu Subsector. I didn't notice any changes you made that affected it, but I'm guessing that there is a strong probability that it is related.

Thank you. I kept missing it. I will go through and fix them.

SectorWorlds4?[edit]

Hi Thomas, I am noticing that the Sector Worlds utility is not working at Empty Quarter sector. There are lots of worlds not being counted and I realize this must be related to your current sandbox work and the new upgraded UWP infoboxes. Which version should be implemented? Is it at 3 or 4 yet? Thank you!

It appears that all of the worlds are entered, but not showing up on the SW3 utility.

Template: SectorWorlds2 and Template: SectorWorlds3 uses DPL, which is limited by having query process note there are connections between the world articles and the sector (or subsector) articles. The upload process does not correctly edit the page in a way to cause that to happen. So both will be off until a person edits (or at least views) each of the world articles. Template:SectorWorlds4 uses the cargo query. Using this template requires adding the "era=Milieu 1116" parameter to get the correct set of worlds. It's also limited to the first 100 entries. I still need to create the SectorWorlds5 with the pagination enabled. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:59, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

AB-101 and Empty Quarter[edit]

Thomas, AB-101 did a fine job auto-generating worlds and systems for Empty Quarter, but the script inserts the stellar data with a space above the expanded entry which does not show up on counts (SectorWorlds#). You can see from my edits the exact details (also leaves a space before closing the code). Mentioning it so the code can be modified to save all of us work later. Thank you!

I have no issues with the additional space right now, I am in the process (albeit slowly) of scouring through Stellar Reaches fanzine to get all of the relevant source data entered. ...and let me tell ya, 23 issues is quite a-lot to scour...
My plan is to go through the rest of my library (digital as it may be; see my user page for details) to get this sector nailed down as much as possible. Ssteve (talk) 22:49, 6 May 2016 (EDT)

Technology and climate codes?[edit]

Thomas, have you ruled that the technology and climate codes are now verboten? The way I look at it is that they add to what a player or referee gets out of the world and they are canon. Did you make a ruling on this? Thank you.

I'm not banning the technology and climate codes. But I do want to make sure they are applied correctly. The "Ht" (High Technology) code should only be applied to worlds at TL-16 (G) or better. I've not reviewed all the climate codes and haven't taken them back out. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:15, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
Ok. Don't the Mongoose rules say C or higher? Maybe I misread them? Thanks for the response.
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:38, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
The "Ht" code is specific to the Mongoose, and not used by Traveller 5th or the T5 Second Survey. This is why they are not in the data sets. I've been specifically asked not to include the Mongoose material in the wiki. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:03, 3 May 2016 (EDT)
The climate codes aren't widespread (...although Marc uses them sometimes), but some of them seem obvious such as a Tp rating for Ga and a Co rating for Ic.
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:40, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
I've not objected, nor reverted, any of the climate code changes. My concern is if I ever update the world data again, they will be overwritten. But keep adding them for now as you find them. This will let me send them back into official lists. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:03, 3 May 2016 (EDT)
No worries, I just want to play fair, communicate, and try to add to the site. Please let me know if I can help you implement any of your projects or what the latest standards are. Want to be a team player. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:22, 3 May 2016 (EDT)

Need a little assistance; Allegiance code[edit]

Tom, I was updating some worlds in EQ and noted that ImDa was missing (see Eninshish (world)) and there were several others. Would you be so kind as to lead me to the correct way to get this fixed? (NOTE I am not asking you to do this, I would like to build my skills in getting things done on my own.) Thanks, Ssteve (talk) 22:42, 6 May 2016 (EDT)

Communication Request & Assistance Offer[edit]

Hi Thomas, I would like to exchange mobile (cell) phone numbers with you so we can better (...and more quickly) communicate (text) and collaborate.

  • Sorry I missed a couple of categories yesterday.
  • I have been implementing a massive number of other edits including removal of the 1116 tags that you requested.
  • Is there anything else I can do to support you?
  • Thanks.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:10, 6 July 2016 (EDT)

Appreciate your prompt reply.

  • Thanks for your consideration. Would be happy to earn your trust should you ever further think about it. I would very much like for us to work more collaboratively as partners.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:58, 6 July 2016 (EDT)

Parameters needed for Template:Sources[edit]

Thomas, can you please input the parameters for the Template:Sources article?

I am uncertain what you mean by this. The Template: Sources has a reasonably complete and up to date documentation page, and have no plans currently to change it. Tjoneslo (talk) 18:00, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
No worries then. The other pages have parameters typed out with options shown. This page only has examples. Doesn't really matter. Thanks for your consideration.
I have been studying the ludo cite article so I can help implement it.
* Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:09, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
Started implementing ludo cite edits. Away from my books so I will have to look up pagination later.
* Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:34, 17 June 2016 (EDT)

Complicated Stellar Designations[edit]

Thomas, Wayne has been doing amazing things with stellar designations. He has some two-letter ones starting with B that keep coming up with the B designations. Example BH = B. How do we get this to work? Thanks ahead of time.

Basically, under T5, "BD" is supposed to be the designator for Brown Dwarf (as the ruleset does not go into the details of L, T, or Y type Brown Dwarfs). I have currently put them in brackets "[BD]" in the tables so that they don't show up with a blue background for blue main-sequence or giant star. There is at least one "BH" on travellermap (Shadowsand (world)/Far Frontiers 2526) that orbits a black hole.
template: primary has the translation of the name to color. The site used as the reference may have have the correct colors for the brown dwarf stars. Tjoneslo (talk) 12:19, 8 July 2016 (EDT)
I tried a few edit. No joy so far. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:39, 8 July 2016 (EDT)
I fixed this. The Template:StarColor (which generates the name of the color) needs more details to correctly tell the differences. The Template:Primary which generates the background color just needed use the correct codes. Don't forget, White Dwarfs and Brown Dwarfs are very different things. Tjoneslo (talk) 13:29, 8 July 2016 (EDT)
Thanks Thomas, really appreciate your coding prowess and help. Will try to be mindful of White Dwarfs and Brown Dwarfs. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 13:35, 8 July 2016 (EDT)

Spinward Marches Sector[edit]

Thomas, are the Marches really complete? They are still missing some key data that none of us have yet compiled... Should the incomplete tag be removed? What are your thoughts?

template: incomplete should be used for articles which are missing at least two of the following:
  1. sources template
  2. info box or side menu
  3. any content ("placeholder" is not content. Two sentences is minimum. )
  4. The headers expected for a similar article
Since the Spinward Marches Sector has all of these it isn't incomplete. Tjoneslo (talk) 11:16, 9 July 2016 (EDT)
Ok. I still feel like it has too many blank areas and needs a proper history among other things. There is so much I want to do. Wish I could do it much more often. Home sick with flu today and am unproductive. High fever so I am resting.
* Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 14:09, 12 July 2016 (EDT)

Rhylanor for Fun & citations[edit]

The very recent episode with Rhylanor (world) by an established author indicates the need for making things MORE obvious, especially in light of this occurrence and the 2016 thread on Trav canon at CotI that W.H. Aramis eventually shut down.

  • The new sector entries without that "easy-to-swallow" meta-history section (at the top of the article) is going to encounter more episodes like this one.
  • Too many clicks frustrates most people and having things be a "one-stop shop" saves us many headaches in the short and long run.
  • It's a necessary compromise to have an "out-of-universe" section like "metahistory" to save us from the Trav canon CotI lot and unhappy researchers.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:43, 15 July 2016 (EDT)

Metahistory[edit]

Thomas, I am not so sure it is a good idea to sequester the metahistory on another page. I thought the whole idea was to make it easy to find. And, are meta and history now combining?

The stated purpose of the main pages of the wiki is to be a in-character reference. The meta-history breaks the mode of the main pages being strictly in character (i.e. they reference the game materials as game materials). So this really shouldn't be in the main page.
Second, at least for the history in the Spinward Marches sector, the Spinward Marches Sector/history is duplicated in the Sources template. That is the purpose of the Sources template. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:40, 11 July 2016 (EDT)
My other suggestion might be to call it /metahistory and save the /history for in-game chronological history. I am so busy trying to get everything up to par that I haven't had a lot of time for expansion ideas. I hope to complete all Imperial and Solomani sectors within the next year and a half. Not sure if that is a realistic goal.
* Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 21:34, 11 July 2016 (EDT)
I had not thought a lot about what the page should be called. I didn't want to loose the information. We have a /meta page already. I wasn't sure if we wanted to move the list of historical information (e.g. all the events of the Fifth Frontier War) into a sub-page and reference it or put just an overview into the sector page. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:40, 11 July 2016 (EDT)
I get it. I had just hoped to deter the crow that collected on the canon thread at CotI. I don't think extra links for the metahistory will deter them. And I'd already received compliments on those clear, easy-to-read citations from ex-detractors. It's not the end of the world. The subsector listing is very useful even if it has some duplication. Could we have that back?
* Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:07, 12 July 2016 (EDT)
The Spinward marches sector is unusual in that you've added the Territorial Overview: 1116 section which includes a full subsector listing. There is another in the sidebar. For most sector listing it would is useful (it would be more useful if the names were links to the correct subsector).
One of the the things we want to think about especially for this sector page is how do we manage the different eras. There is a full data set on every world for both Milieu 1116 and New Era, with changes for Milieu 1105 (Pre-FFW) and with some work to add two more. So we have the formatting to do one era, which you have done a good job on.
I'm thinking we're going to need to divide the material into sub-pages, first by topic, then by era. Like I did with the Spinward Marches Sector/world list. And then include links from the main page to the different subject/era for people to review. So I took a look at the outline used by the Spinward Marches (and other sectors) and think it needs to be re-arranged to make this easier.
Description
Astrography
Mains, Traces, and Clusters
Other Astrographic Features
History
All major historical events with links to longer articles and year pages
Native Sophonts
Demographics -> by era
Political Astrography -> by era
Generated sector summary paragraph for the era
World Listing
Territorial Overview
Subsector listing
Polity Descriptions
Major Powers plus sub divisions (e.g. Imperial Duchies and districts)
Minor Powers
References
This is my suggestion for an outline for the sector page. Its similar to the current Spinward Marches one, but a little more compact. It also puts all the era changes into two sections (Demographics and the larger Political Astrography). If we have only one era it can go into main page. If there are multiple (like the Spinward Marches) they can be put onto sub-pages with links.
What do you think Tjoneslo (talk) 08:20, 12 July 2016 (EDT)
I have some more thoughts on this. I will update this tonight. Feedback still welcome. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:21, 12 July 2016 (EDT)
Remember that we have some unmotivated users that want it immediately easy to use. Subpages complicate things especially without links to them. Add links referring to those sub pages "please see...". The system I devised for the sector pages works... I wouldn't want to play with it too much, but I've agreed to have my work "mercilessly edited" and like to play fair. The history section is now a timeline and demographics. It's missing history... LOL

Use of "Incomplete"[edit]

Thomas, which category of tag should I use for articles that are not fleshed out. You approve of a use for "incomplete" meaning lacking infoboxes. I envision it as meaning "incomplete" and missing key content such as history, background, description, etc. "Stub" doesn't do it and many of the other such markers also seem lacking. I read them and your notes.

  • Let's find a common use that we both like as well as other users, a community approved use, please.
  • "Detail" maybe?
  • Appreciate your hard work.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
From dim memory the ordering was to tag articles which had only a minimal amount of information (e.g. one sentence but nothing else) as Stubs. If the was missing important parts, as previously discussed, should be Incomplete. It was a vague standard which was used to flag articles which need different levels of work. I borrowed the templates and descriptions of Wikipedia from many years ago. If you want to research what the Wikipedia standards are that may be useful. Otherwise, as long as you pick one and are consistent about it, it will be fine.
Tjoneslo (talk) 08:08, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
Deal. I am not locked into the current model and would be happy to hear more of your thoughts on the subject and/or reach a better consensus. I put something into place for now, but I am really open to something better if the wiki community could devise it.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:16, 21 July 2016 (EDT)

Latest Creature Template[edit]

Hi Thomas, what is the latest creature template that you prefer?

I recommend using the template:Animal or the simple one for creatures. And the template:SophontData for sophonts. I would like to get away from using the template:race as for new or updated articles.
- Tjoneslo (talk) 11:18, 21 July 2016 (EDT)
Deal. I will use template:Animal for the Poni.
Agreed about template race.
Is template:SophontData the one that works with your brilliant extended uwp?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:12, 21 July 2016 (EDT)
Correct, the Template:SophontData also works withe StellarData. Hence the request to update all the Sophonts to use that template. Tjoneslo (talk) 18:16, 21 July 2016 (EDT)
I am not aware of any sources for the poni.
- Tjoneslo (talk) 11:18, 21 July 2016 (EDT)
Thanks, mate!
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:12, 21 July 2016 (EDT)
I've looked for info on the Poni, and the only thing I found was in JTAS06. Ssteve (talk) 09:19, 22 July 2016 (EDT)
Thanks, Steve.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:34, 22 July 2016 (EDT)

Location of "InfoboxStar" Template?[edit]

Thomas, where is the template named "InfoboxStar" located?

Template:InfoboxStar ?
I think it is the main template from the main wiki that Wayne is using for stars. Look at one of the star entries.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:14, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
Also Note: The "InfoboxStar" Template that I am using for Stellar Data boxes has a line for Stellar Radius (for which I have entered data for each star that I have data on), but the info does not show up in the final infobox. There must be an error in the template somewhere. That data is actually useful for GMs who are interested in Stellar Jump Masking and Shadowing.
--WHULorigan (talk) 12:16, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
I added the radius parameter output to the template. Do some of these parameters need to include units (e.g. Km or Msol). Tjoneslo (talk) 16:19, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
Radius is in RSol, Mass is in MSol, Luminosity is in LSol, and Temperature is in K.
--WHULorigan (talk) 00:04, 24 July 2016 (EDT)

Homeworld Coding[edit]

What is the best way to register homeworlds? Use the "ClusterWorlds2" utility? What's your opinion, please?

I'm confused by your request. The StellarData and common use has been putting the worlds that are home to NIL have been given Category: Homeworld. Template:ClusterWorlds2 won't find them because it assumes the category would be "Homeworld worlds", which seems redundant. I can create a new Homeworlds template if you like. Tjoneslo (talk) 18:15, 21 July 2016 (EDT)
Yes, would you prefer I use the old "ClusterWorlds2" utility or should a new one be written?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:34, 22 July 2016 (EDT)
Template:Homeworlds -> You can use this. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:19, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
Great. Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:14, 23 July 2016 (EDT)

N!!krumbiix Sector Infobox Error[edit]

N!!krumbiix Sector Infobox appears to have an error conflating worlds and subsectors.

The problem was the selector for the subsector names got confused by the odd formatting in the sector name box. Which was done at one point because the sector name as two exclamation marks, which is used in the wiki formatting of tables. But that has now been fixed. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:22, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
Great. I'll take a look so that I understand on a technical / code level.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:30, 23 July 2016 (EDT)

Dictionary & Basic Article Entry[edit]

Thomas, we should find a way to reconcile dictionary and basic article entries.

  • Perhaps we can keep the basic dictionary article layout at the top of the article and then implement a basic article layout below it? It's an idea.
  • Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:14, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
The Dictionary entry will be one or two sentences long. All of the headers you are suggesting adding will always be empty. So this adds a lot of visual confusion to an article which should be one sentence.
- Tjoneslo (talk) 08:34, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
I agree about dictionary entries. What I then suggest is that dictionary entries have a designator in paretheses like (worlds).
It would be word (dictionary).
Because a lot of the entries have what could be a good basic article as well as the definition.
They are or should be two different fish.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:18, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
For example, the article on Sophontologist will eventually be expanded to a full article by me or someone else.
At the same time, it should also have a dictionary entry.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:20, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
Second, there is a formatting tool we can use to collect the dictionary articles and format them into a page or PDF form. This works best if the Dictionary articles are formatted as simply as possible. Adding a group of headers into the entries with "No information available" will make the whole thing look terrible.
- Tjoneslo (talk) 08:34, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
Sounds great. I have it on my list to update and format the dictionary articles according to the existing pattern.
"No information available" and well-labeled headers are how we communicate with free range editors.
They see that and they know that that area needs to be researched and filled in.
For instance the Description (Astrography & Planetology) section should have those things. Now Wayne is taking the stellar data boxes that we collaborated on and filling them in with star data. That is how it is supposed to work.
When you delete the "No information available", you make it hard for a free range editor to recognize that something needs to be worked on.
I absolutely agree with you that it is not an ideal fit, but it works and Steve, Wayne, and others understand that such an area needs quality content. And they research and fill it in.
It is a necessary compromise.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:18, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
Finally, in the very few cases where there is a longer article to expound upon the dictionary definition we should have two articles.
One for the dictionary with its one or two sentence definition and linked to the longer library article with the headers and formatting.
- Tjoneslo (talk) 08:34, 23 July 2016 (EDT)
I agree. I suggest it have the designator (dictionary) in its title.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:18, 23 July 2016 (EDT)

Gratitude for Thomas[edit]

Thomas, I just want to say thanks for all of your hard work here over the years.

You've never given up when many have. You're still here and committed and I deeply respect and admire that.
At any rate, I'm grateful for what you do and I'm happy to be sharing this project with you.
I hope, over time, we'll become better and better at working with each other and making this near-impossible project into an even more successful reality.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:27, 29 July 2016 (EDT)

TL's & Produce?[edit]

What is the tech level on produce like fruit, vegetables, and livestock? Does it even have one?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:12, 31 July 2016 (EDT)
Plants and animals also used for produce should be TL-1, the invention of agriculture and livestock management. There could be an argument made for some genetically engineered plants or animals to be TL-8 or later. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:21, 31 July 2016 (EDT)
Thank you very much, Thomas.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:34, 31 July 2016 (EDT)

Getting the IISS page to display scout bases?[edit]

Thomas, what is the best way to get the IISS page to display scout bases?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 04:59, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Use the Template:Base worlds with the correct parameters. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:18, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Is the template limited to 500 worlds like the early sector templates?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:09, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Not any more. Tjoneslo (talk) 10:19, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Thanks, been watching your code edits and correlating with media wiki pages.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:16, 7 August 2016 (EDT)

Jump Drive Article Citations?[edit]

Hi Thomas, I am having difficulty getting the internal page citations with the Jump Drive article working. I made the Traveler 5th page into InfoBox2, but it still seems to be off. Would you please check it out and help me fix it?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 13:18, 12 August 2016 (EDT)
See Hop Drive . That seems to work for me. Tjoneslo (talk) 15:30, 12 August 2016 (EDT)
See Jump Drive. The "name " parameter is the name of the book in the template. The "pageCite" parameter is an arbitrary name to connect different citations in the article to the same citation. Tjoneslo (talk) 15:49, 12 August 2016 (EDT)
Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 21:47, 12 August 2016 (EDT)

SoCf code for expanded UWP[edit]

User:Tjoneslo, would you please input the SoCf code into the new expanded UWP template schema. I can't remember how to do it. I need a reminder. Please.

Numbers of worlds in a system?[edit]

Hey Thomas, how are you determining the number of worlds in a system according to the expanded UWP?
I am seeing really high numbers in many systems, 10, 14, or more. Is it random?
The PBG didn't have that data. And I can't recall it being in basic UWP or even T5SS. What am I missing?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 13:35, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
T5 Rules (v5.09 page 407 and 413), the worlds count is Main World + GG + belts + 2D. All of the T5 second survey reviewed sectors have included the values. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:23, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
Thank you.
Are you randomly generating the 2D6?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:47, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
No. The T5 Second Survey (i.e. Don) generated the values, and I'm simply copying them from the canon source. Is there a specific cases (or cases) you are interested in? Tjoneslo (talk) 17:07, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
Is this different than the data that Josh uploads to the map?
No particular cases, more that I'd like to not duplicate previous effort or step over you or Josh.
Thanks for your response.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:53, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
It's exactly the same data as on Traveller Map. The sequence was the T5 Second Survey (i.e. Don) generated/fixed all of the T5 data for all the reviewed sectors. Including the Worlds count for each system. Then gave the data to Josh for placing on TravellerMap. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:27, 25 September 2016 (EDT)
OK. That's the data then.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:10, 25 September 2016 (EDT)

Trade Code "Ex"[edit]

Hey Thomas, what is Trade Code "Ex"?
Saw it at Barnard (world) under the Interstellar Wars GURPS data there. I am not fully familiar with that product.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:38, 30 September 2016 (EDT)
GT:IW defines a smaller set of trade codes for the worlds (p. 131)
Ag (agricultural), Ex (Extreme): atmo 0-1, A+, or Hydro 0, In (Industrial), Na (Non-Agricultural), Ni (Non-industrial): pop 6-, Po (Poor): atmo 2-5, Hydro 1-5, Ri (Rich).
They work better that the T5 ones because there are fewer over lapping code.
Tjoneslo (talk) 15:21, 1 October 2016 (EDT)
Thank you. Guess I need to read up. Only 200 plus sources to keep straight. LOL
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:48, 1 October 2016 (EDT)

Hanstone Subsectors[edit]

Hey Thomas, any chance you can re-load Hanstone Sector so the subsectors will show up?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:58, 15 October 2016 (EDT)
You have to create the subsector pages with all the correct infobox and categories. I can't find the Subsector page for Hanstone sector. Tjoneslo (talk) 00:56, 24 October 2016 (EDT)
Thanks. Can do.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:06, 24 October 2016 (EDT)

Aplhavile[edit]

Thomas, I have a feeling that Aplhavile (world) at Alpha Crucis 1216 should be Alphaville (world). I'll contact Josh. Do you have any other way of checking?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 23:32, 15 October 2016 (EDT)
You are correct, the world should be Alphaville. The easiest way to check is the jump map that appears in the UWP infobox. You can also query the sector/location in Traveller Map. Tjoneslo (talk) 00:56, 24 October 2016 (EDT)
Thanks.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 06:54, 24 October 2016 (EDT)

Template:InfoboxBook2 Functionality[edit]

Thomas, the references at Knoellighz Sector are not working and they will not create active hyperlinks. What needs to be done to make that work?
I've looked over Template:InfoboxBook2 and read your notes and I am not sure how to fix it. Please help.
Also, is there any way we can change the canon entries not to use clunky numerical tags such as 0 and 1 and instead use words?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:51, 6 November 2016 (EST)
I've fixed the canon parameter so it will accept either "Yes" or "1" for true and "No" or "0" for false.
In order to make the {{Ludography cite|name=<name>}} work correctly the name parameter needs to match the name given in the {{InfoboxBook2|name=<name>}}. The name parameters need to match, not the page names. Tjoneslo (talk) 13:40, 6 November 2016 (EST)
Thank you. Makes perfect sense. Really appreciate your help.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 14:08, 6 November 2016 (EST)

Two Plints?[edit]

Do you know why Plintspiedl (world) and Plintsiedl (world) both show up at Zdiadlevepra Subsector?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:23, 11 December 2016 (EST)
Because there are three pages, see also: Plintspie (world) Tjoneslo (talk) 08:39, 12 December 2016 (EST)
Thank you. I should have tracked the linked to's. Appreciate your eye for detail.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:44, 12 December 2016 (EST)

Project Assistance[edit]

Thomas, are there any projects with which you would like assistance?
I am working on several sectors and lots of research, but wanted to offer.
Happy holidays and thanks for all of your hard work here at the wiki.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:41, 18 December 2016 (EST

Adding a subsector map[edit]

I was going to add a subsector map to the Precipice page, the map is available from the TravellerMap, but I am unsure as to the exact template/format to use. Graham2001 (talk) 03:33, 21 December 2016 (EST)

2017[edit]

Organization of Goods Entries[edit]

Thomas, how do you feel goods entries should be organized? Or do you feel that they should be left as stubs? Interested to learn more about your position since I know you always have a bigger picture in mind.
I think that implementing some kind of regular structure is very important. It helps new authors to structure their thoughts and give more richness to the setting. What do you think?
I am a maximalist. I like giving as much detail and richness as possible.

I have discovered that most of the goods articles are three sentences long. And your headers just add visual clutter to what should be three sentences in one paragraph. I also happen to agree with this sentiment.
I do agree that having a regular structure for articles is a good idea, and that it helps keep articles consistent. However, don't forget that 90+% of our viewership is readers only. That is, people who want to read the articles only, but don't (or won't) contribute. From that perspective, you want a minimalist point of view. What is the minimal set of headers, infoboxes, etc. that presents all of known and useful information. Things not known, or not written about from the source, can be assumed by omission rather than explicitly stating it.
If you want a project, all of the article outline templates are currently hidden. It would be very useful to put them as individual sub-pages under Manual of Style. For example Manual of Style/worlds or Manual of Style/sophonts, then make sure they are linked to the main Manual of style article, with directions for using these to fill out an article of this type. The sub-pages should include the infobox(s), all the headers, the Sources box (empty), and so on.
That way we all have an easily found, agreed upon layout for a full article. Authors who want create new content can easily find or be pointed to the article outline to make sure they include everything and organize it. And/or add to existing article.

Tjoneslo (talk) 11:34, 1 January 2017 (EST)


Thanks for your keen response, Thomas. M.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:10, 18 November 2017 (EST)

I accept that project.
The wiki has been floundering along for nearly a decade. Visual clutter can be a stage of growth to well developed articles... I can see the point that you and Sstefan are making and find it eminently reasonable, but how is the wiki to grow if we only accept mature, fully grown articles?
When I stepped in, I found many of the wiki sector articles poorly organized so I took a whack at it and began collecting their data in a systematic, comparative fashion.
What you, I, and a few others have developed is serious progress. MWM, Greg, Rob and others use it all the time.
I am suggesting that we, as a collective group, change our mindset or strategy on such things.
Developing style pages is a great suggestion. Challenge accepted.
But that, in my opinion, is only part of the solution. Another part is developing the wiki as we go and not expecting Athena to pop out of Zeus's head fully formed...
I write this because I care and I watched the wiki not provide the answers that new gamers at conventions wanted... That's no criticism of the moderator or fans, but a call to action. Let's make this wiki into a functional, comprehensive AAB.

I put into place the first of your suggestions, Thomas. Thanks. Great ideas. Here: [[1]] and here: [[2]]
Please edit mercilessly as you see fit. LOL ;-)
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:00, 2 January 2017 (EST)

Rhylanor Data Crowding[edit]

Thomas, Greg would like to see some data changed or overwritten at Rhylanor (world). Please see the discussion page there.
This might be a time for your wiki master title to come in handy. The solution could be as easy as an extra footnote.
I am loathe to overwrite otherwise good content. M.
I changed the references of "Rhylantinople" to "Rhylanor (Main) Highport". I think Greg's primary objection is to the name, not necessarily the data.
That sounds fine to me. I have no objections to the change. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:16, 5 January 2017 (EST)
Thanks, Wayne.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:25, 5 January 2017 (EST)

Trojan Reaches Volunteer[edit]

Thomas, we have a volunteer for Trojan Reaches. Do you think you could go light with your editing there while he learns the ropes?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:16, 13 March 2017 (EDT)

Who is our wonderful new volunteer? I'd like to welcome him to the Wiki.
Tjoneslo (talk) 13:11, 16 March 2017 (EDT)

User:DickNervous, an older traveler grognard from NY, has started working on the Trojan Reaches.
He previously worked on it a bit and is returning while his game has a hiatus.
I certainly benefitted from your mentoring, Thomas, and I'm sure he would too. Thanks for your kindness.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:52, 16 March 2017 (EDT)

ClusterWorlds2 Functionality?[edit]

Thomas, it appears that the template ClusterWorlds2 is no longer fully working. Do you know anything about that?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:45, 28 April 2017 (EDT)

It would vastly help if you gave a specific page where you are seeing this issue. We've run into this problem before and the cause was badly formatted base pages. Tjoneslo (talk) 19:46, 28 April 2017 (EDT)

Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:31, 29 April 2017 (EDT)

This is a regression in the DynamicPageList functionality: https://github.com/Alexia/DynamicPageList/issues/33
In order to get these to work again I'll need to limit the ClusterWorlds template on one of ways
  1. have the list be un-ordered. I really don't like the way that looks
  2. Display only the first 200 or so entries. I'm going to do this.
And we'll have to be aware of the limitation until this gets fixed. I don's suppose you know PHP at all? Tjoneslo (talk) 10:08, 29 April 2017 (EDT)

Thank you for your attention to this.
I defer to your preference. I could live with unordered but greatly prefer it.
I actually do know PHP fairly well. I have avoided doing coding here because I do not want to insert code that you possibly didn't understand completely since you host and are the wikimaster. I try to stay within the code preferences that you specify.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:18, 29 April 2017 (EDT)

In all seriousness: https://github.com/Alexia/DynamicPageList
This is the code for the Dynamic Page List extension to the wiki. If you can figure out what is wrong with the code as to why it's generating the query incorrectly, I have a copy of the Traveller Wiki on a VM where I can verify the code and build a PR for them to fix it officially.
Tjoneslo (talk) 10:49, 29 April 2017 (EDT)

I'll take a look. I could have sworn one of the recent mediawiki articles had something about that.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:40, 29 April 2017 (EDT)

Many thanks Maksim-Smelchak for bringing this up. I noticed it too on several pages including Zirunkariish and several of the corporation's worlds category pages. I have no PHP qualifications but I think Tjoneslo's course of action to limit the ClusterWorlds template to display only the first 200 or so entries is best. For the rare occasions when such listings would exceed 200, perhaps a separate template would be advisable? Just my two Imperial Credits. Thanks for the opportunity to provide input and opine.
FarScout275 (talk) 04:56, 30 April 2017 (EDT)

Aam & Conway Disambiguation[edit]

Thomas, I disambiguated Conway. Would you please be kind enough to fix the advanced UWP system for it?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:09, 13 May 2017 (EDT)
You have the ability to move pages (and sub-pages). In the menu at the top of the page under "More", there is a move option. Please use this for processing disambiguation pages. The move process will move the pages, the talk page, and all the sub-pages (like the data pages), along with all the page history. Copying the page content means much more work, and we lose all of the page history.
Tjoneslo (talk) 08:19, 14 May 2017 (EDT)
Thank you for your assistance.
The history is not lost. It just remains on the disambiguation page.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:29, 14 May 2017 (EDT)
The entire point is the history goes with the page, and is available there. Not on some other page which may be difficult to find. I know you have a very specific set of operations for fixing pages, but this is important to the correct operation of the wiki. Especially for others. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:40, 14 May 2017 (EDT)
Would you please be kind enough to explain in detail why and how this is useful to you and others?
I have been able to track down all kinds of records, usually with little to no help.
The advanced UWP really can make a mess of things. Please help me to understand your train of thought.
Thanks.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:50, 14 May 2017 (EDT)
Page history is one of the central properties of what makes a wiki. You process disrupts the page history. The fact that you can find the page history based upon the changes you made isn't important. The assumption for others is they can always find page history with the page. So please respect both the intended workflow of the wiki and the writers who will come after you by making sure every page has the correct page history. The Move page functionality is there specifically to keep the page history with the page. Tjoneslo (talk) 10:14, 14 May 2017 (EDT)
Thanks for sharing. I would ask similarly that you don't delete my work, which also has intrinsic functionality. Edit it, for sure, but don't delete it because it is not yet complete. There is meaning there even if you feel it is duplicative.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:54, 14 May 2017 (EDT)

Page Cite Problems[edit]

Thomas, when you get a chance, please, would you please review the world entry here?: Falcon (TR 2725) (world)
I have used the page cite template, that you so kindly wrote, several times and it is glitching somehow.
{{Page cite|name=Maksim-Smelchak|page=1|citeName=TBD
Undoubtedly, it is something I am missing and nothing wrong with the template.
Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:54, 19 May 2017 (EDT)

For just a name, like you are doing here, you want to use the Template:Unpublished cite. The Template: Page cite wants a real published book name, not an author.
Also, never use citeName=TDB. Always give a real, unique name to your citeName. Overlapping citeName values cause the cite's in the source box to be confused and wrong. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:45, 19 May 2017 (EDT)

Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 05:37, 20 May 2017 (EDT)

7777 Worlds[edit]

Per your request, Thomas, I have thinned down the 7777 worlds to under a hundred and will get through the last 80 or so.
I have changed procedures to enter future worlds with the subsector coordinates per your wishes.
In this process, I have noticed that some of the sector world counting seem to be adding a world in places or otherwise be off count.
Please advise as to which template should be used and how we might ameliorate this problem.
Thank you for your hard work at the wiki. Really appreciated your assistance with Dagu. I know that is your favorite.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:23, 17 June 2017 (EDT)

Thank you for cleaning up the world articles with the incorrect hex location.
There are three templates which would provide a worlds list and count:
  1. Template:ClusterWorlds - used for listing worlds in a cluster, relies upon having worlds in a specific category
  2. Template:SectorWorlds2 - used to list worlds in a sector or subsector, relies upon the correct formatting of the article.
  3. Template:SectorWorlds4 - used to list worlds in a sector or subsector, relies upon having the data in the SectorData cargo table: Currently limited to Dagudashaag, Spinward Marches, Deneb, Knoellighz, and their subsectors.
There are a number of other template which can be used for the same purpose, but they are in various ways, broken. If you have questions like this, please direct me to the specific page and template which you feel is off and why. A general "something is broken" is not something I can always track down to fix.
Tjoneslo (talk) 12:24, 17 June 2017 (EDT)

Welcome. I will track down some specifics for you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:29, 17 June 2017 (EDT)

Wiki Compliments[edit]

I wanted to pass on compliments about the wiki to you.
I am working with future FFE and Mongoose authors who love the resource.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:42, 18 June 2017 (EDT)

Lishun & Hinterworlds Disambiguations[edit]

I will be doing Lishun and Hinterworlds disambiguations in the near future. Glimmerdrift Reaches disambigs are done for now.
If you want any of that done a specific way, this is a polite notice that those areas are forthcoming in the near future.
If you are willing to chat about it, let's do so. I promise to listen and be open-minded.
I appreciate what you do here. Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 21:45, 18 June 2017 (EDT)

If you want to, you could just post the worlds that need to be converted to a disambiguation page, I can do the page move and other setup's as needed. That would probably work best/fastest. Tjoneslo (talk) 02:38, 19 June 2017 (EDT)

Sounds great. Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:13, 19 June 2017 (EDT)

Please Stop Deleting Placeholders[edit]

Please stop deleting placeholders. They are just things we'll need to go back to later. And you destroy their history. Important, right?
Please send me the list and I'll fill them in further to your unspecified, minimum specs.
I am doing so for some of your preferences. Disambig pages. Quid pro quo.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 05:05, 20 June 2017 (EDT)
They're not gone. If you edit the page, it will point out there are N deleted items and allow you to restore the pages. When I asked you not to create these pages in the first place, I pointed out the redlinks in the articles serve as an important signifier to both the readers and writers the article on the other end does not exist, and will need to be created and added to. This isn't my opinion, but inherent in the design of the wiki software.
http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/index.php?search=placeholder&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go -> Here are the 1,472 placeholders articles you can work on fixing. Tjoneslo (talk) 07:29, 20 June 2017 (EDT)
Why bother deleting them then? Why do you go to the extra work when you could be working on your projects?
It's just as apparent one way as the other. Is it meaningful in some way?
Is there anyway we can reset our communications? Or will there always be this snarkiness?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:03, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

Climate Article[edit]

Thomas, please review and enrich this article: Climate with your observations, comments, and opinions.

Thank you for your hard work at the wiki.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:34, 22 June 2017 (EDT)

I have nothing to add to the article at this time. I need to dig out the DGP WorldBuilder and First In books to verify the entries. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:42, 22 June 2017 (EDT)

Thank you. Most of that is GURPS Trav, correlated with T5 and other editions.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:33, 22 June 2017 (EDT)

Subsector Maps in my Faraway Sectors[edit]

Hi sir, subsector maps in templates for my Distant Fringe (Faraway Sectors) region seem to be off center - I'm losing the last column of hexes in the displayed subsector map. Examples would be any of the Subsectors within Halcyon Sector (coordinates -18 / -13), or indeed in any of the sectors around it. Also, my apologies for not having said hello before now, I've been getting to grips with Talk. Bit of a learning curve. Many thanks too for your earlier encouraging comments.

Alagoric (talk) 15:33, 5 July 2017 (EDT)
Welcome to the Traveller Wiki. Thanks for all of your contributions.
The Subsector maps were off because the calculated coordinates were incorrect. We fixed it for sector maps for the farwaway sectors, but missed the update for the subsector maps. This is now fixed and should be nicely centered for all the maps. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:21, 5 July 2017 (EDT)
Thank very much for sorting that, really appreciated.
And thanks, Having a lot of fun putting it all together.
Alagoric (talk) 02:08, 6 July 2017 (EDT)

Lishun Citation Upgrades[edit]

Thomas, I plan to populate Lishun Sector soon. If you would like to upgrade the citations to your latest standard, I will make sure they are implemented as the systems are populated.

  • I will work the inevitable disambigs per your preferences.
  • Do you have any other requests for this sector?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:25, 9 July 2017 (EDT)

My only request is to finish the worlds and articles in other sectors you have been working on before you start another.
Tjoneslo (talk) 20:55, 9 July 2017 (EDT)

Thanks. All on the drawing board.
Have you made any progress on any of your projects?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:17, 10 July 2017 (EDT)

Knoellighz Sector Autogeneration[edit]

User:Tjoneslo, would you please update the autogenerated data pages for Knoellighz Sector in the near future?

User:The Pakkrat is chomping at the bit to make changes after the last T5SS update.
I will teach him how to make a new layout page after the change.
Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:35, 14 July 2017 (EDT)

Is this just the worlds, or are you needing the subsector and sector summaries and that data too? I think there have been some updates to the Traveller Map data files so I'll have to pull the updates from there first. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:36, 15 July 2017 (EDT)

I was just thinking worlds, but whatever you think would be appropriate.
Thinking about it, yes, I think everything. He'll need it to adjust the designs. ZhSh changed its borders.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:42, 15 July 2017 (EDT)

Oh, that's right. Several of the Zho sectors are now in review with real data. That requires a full Trade Route run. This process requires several days. And I last did the update in Feburary. Let me ping Josh about the status of the various updates and see if now is a good time or there are pending updates. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:19, 15 July 2017 (EDT)

OK, thanks.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2017 (EDT)

Lower or upper case for trade category?[edit]

Thomas, would you please change the code pm the standard UWP to accept lower or upper case:

  • |class =
  • |trade =
Trade only accepts lower case and it would be more flexible for it to accept upper case as well.
Thank you. If you do not care to do it, please let me know. I can do it.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:56, 31 July 2017 (EDT)
Done. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:18, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

Templates, Organizational Layouts, & References (2017)[edit]

Thomas, I am pretty sure that your remark referred to organizational layouts. Please confirm.

I have intentions to fill out every single of the thousands of worlds, either myself or through land grab contests.
But I don't write at FTL and it may take me awhile. Please be calm, bear with me, and understand that I am working on an extremely long-term arc to develop Traveller properties.
I know it is difficult and you have my sympathy, but short term strategies for wiki development didn't get great results in the first ten years of the wiki's development. Thank goodness for everything that has been done, it's amazing. Much gratitude to you and others.
But, I want to see it get to the next level. Stuff like Imperial genealogy, more developed corporate info, and the like.
Please help me to understand your feelings and opinions about references. I don't understand why you are removing previous references.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:38, 13 August 2017 (EDT)

I'm missing a reference here. Which, of the many many remarks, are you specifically referring to? Tjoneslo (talk) 11:31, 13 August 2017 (EDT)

You mean there is more than one??? I really do appreciate what Maksim has been working on, but still there are frustrations that leave me wanting to distance my involvement. Ssteve (talk) 19:04, 23 August 2017 (EDT)


I'm clearly missing another conversation. I'm sorry you're not comfortable contributing and I would like to fix things to make you feel so. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:48, 23 August 2017 (EDT)

I spoke with Maksim and I hope we resolved that issue. Look for further entries for the Empty Quarter in the near future. Ssteve (talk) 02:19, 24 August 2017 (EDT)

Thomas, we spoke using one of your prohibited communicative mediums.

It was mostly small talk, answering questions and I will leave him more space when he inputs entries.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 05:29, 24 August 2017 (EDT)

Sophont Entries (2017)[edit]

I can't wait to see what you come up with while you experiment with the sophont entries. Good luck!

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:53, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

Me too. First step is getting the headers more consistent and the articles organized according to a more sensible layout. Further suggestions welcome. Tjoneslo (talk) 23:29, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

You're doing great. My only observation is that I hate losing good data or categories such as the homeworld environments or atmospheric breathing gases.

MGT is working on new Bwap and Vegan books among others. I know because I am editing them. We have been using the wiki as a development device.
I based the previous layout on a combination of FFE, DGP, and MGT. I found it sensible but I am open to new ideas.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:51, 17 September 2017 (EDT)

I look forward to seeing the new books when they come out.
I found the ordering of the previous outline difficult to understand. It made adding or updating entries more difficult than I thought necessary. I still have a aversion to layouts that have a header with one sentence. My schooling for outlines was to have a full paragraph for each header.
In either case I try very hard not to remove any information, only to organize and consolidate it so that it more readable and easier to follow.
Tjoneslo (talk) 18:11, 17 September 2017 (EDT)

No worries. Go for it. I would love to see it improved for all fans.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:22, 17 September 2017 (EDT)

Subsector Template (2017)[edit]

The subsector template is not generating data according to Trav-Map data. Error.

  • Specifically, the automatic "Polity Listing" is not accurate. It may just need updating.
  • Specifically, Udinidir Subsector reads all Alliance of Ozuvon, which doesn't reflect Trav Map data. There are many others.
  • Any chance you can redesign that as a template like SectorWorlds2 rather than have it be automatic like it is? Please.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:56, 22 October 2017 (EDT)

The question of templates requires asking the question of where do we get the data from:
  • Pulling it from the existing world data requires the world articles be 100% correct. And I'll renew my objection to entering the empty world articles.
  • Pulling it from the Traveller Map API. I really don't want to be more closely tied into Traveller Map, and Joshua has already stated the wiki takes about half of his bandwidth.
  • Have me update the summaries. The full trade map generation process takes about a week of my free time, including the upload to the wiki.
I would suggest for this case, you update the subsector summary page. I've asked you not to update the summaries because the Trade Map update process will overwrite them. But it this case lets if we can figure out why it's this wrong.
Tjoneslo (talk) 18:46, 22 October 2017 (EDT)

Thanks for your response.

  • I think we need to reconsider the process if it takes a week of your free time. I find that unfair.
  • I would love to better understand what you do so that we can bring in other minds and figure out better ways.
  • I have been using layout pages for some time to avoid editing your auto-generated pages.
  • I don't feel comfortable with so many auto-generated pages and only one person managing them. That makes you a potential single point of failure and a huge loss to Traveller if you were experience misfortune. Lord forbid.
  • I have a hunch that this is related to one of your auto-generated coding routines. I've seen it elsewhere. It will probably be solved by a later update. No urgency from me. I can certainly live with it for now, but I want you to be aware of it so you can take appropriate action when the time comes.
  • Thanks.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:29, 23 October 2017 (EDT)

I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to set expectations. I've not made the process more streamlined and easier because the assumption was the underlying data (in Traveller Map) wasn't going to change frequently and there were not going to be many places in the wiki to update. So I've been scheduling the generated updates about once a year. Right now I'm waiting for Josh to get some updates for the Zhodani sectors, the Julian Protectorate, and, if your post below is correct, the Hive Federation.
All of the code, and most of the directions, for the Trade Map generation, including the upload process for the wiki, is hosted in GitHub: https://github.com/makhidkarun/traveller_pyroute
I've double checked the subsector summaries for the JP sectors and they are now correct.
Tjoneslo (talk) 07:27, 24 October 2017 (EDT)

I figured it was an update.

  • I think it's a safe assumption that with someone to drive the process, there will be many more updates.
  • Almost each of the major races has embers in the fire... That means potentially 6 major races of sector updates dribbling down over the next few years...
  • Let's lighten your workload however possible. You are an important lynchpin. Can't have you burning out.
  • Please let me know how I can assist with the lightening of you workload, but not your wise advice or keen insights.
  • I am familiar with GitHub.
  • Thank you again!
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:36, 24 October 2017 (EDT)

Hiver Space (2017)[edit]

Hiver Space has a whole crew using our rough wiki data combined with Trav Map doing development.

  1. Thank you for your edits to Avereguar Sector.
  2. I hope to see Hiver Space come out with published product in the next 24 to 48 months.
  3. There is a plan amongst the chaos of Trav Inner Circle and other craziness.
  4. Thank you for all that you do. I highly appreciate you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:59, 22 October 2017 (EDT)

Star Bridge Subsector (2017)[edit]

Hi Thomas, your automated polity counter at Star Bridge appears to be coming up with errors: Star Bridge Subsector.

  • Do you know why it is coming up with so many errors? Anything I can do to help?
  • It is otherwise a marvelous piece of coding. Thank you for creating it.
  • I am currently working on Aldebaran Sector.
  • Very soon, all of the Solomani Confederation will be entered.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:10, 18 November 2017 (EST)

I'm confused by your statement. I would try purging your page cache: Under the More option in the top of the page, select the "Purge Cache" option. I don't see any errors on the page. Can you be more specific about what you are seeing? Tjoneslo (talk) 12:04, 18 November 2017 (EST)

Star Bridge Subsector reads (I cleared the cache):

  • Polity Listing
    • The Solomani Confederation, Bootean Federation in Star Bridge has jurisdiction over 18 worlds with a population of 8 billion. The highest population world is Valdarno (Aldebaran 0816). The highest tech level is D at Proserpina (Aldebaran 0715). The average technology level is 9 (with most between 7 and 10). The subsector capital is Aetna (Aldebaran 0619).
    • The Non-Aligned Human-dominated worlds in Star Bridge encompasses two worlds with a population of less than 1 million.
But it has no SoBF worlds. They are SoCf. It reads SoBF (Bootean) for worlds that are not.
I am noticing this for that code across many sectors. Wrong allegiance codes.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:43, 18 November 2017 (EST)

Yes, this is a known problem. I have fixed the issue in the trade code generator. I just need to find the time to run the generator and upload the results. As I have explained previously the whole process takes about a week of my spare time. I am actively trying to schedule the time to do this but life is interfering with my best laid plans. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:31, 18 November 2017 (EST)

I totally understand. I'd really like to see a solution developed that won't be so demanding of you or others.

  • And in the mean time, get procedures for what you do now so someone else can lose that week of update time when you go on vacation or have other obligations.
  • I think that is massively unfair to you.
  • I had a feeling that it was an identified issue since I've seen it many times before.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:47, 18 November 2017 (EST)

Aldebaran Sector Tz worlds (2017)[edit]

Hi Thomas, I am noticing a tremendous number of Tz worlds in Aldebaran.

  • And many of them are in combinations that seem odd such as [Ic Tz] or [Ga Tz].
  • Do you know anything about that?
  • Do the Solomani have special technology allowing them to colonize more Tz worlds than their rivals?
  • These Tz worlds are from T5SS or Trav Map data, not anything that I have done.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:35, 21 November 2017 (EST)

Thank you for your responses off-forum.

  • I have ideas.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:12, 24 November 2017 (EST)

Spinward Marches Areas (2017)[edit]

Hi Thomas, I am bringing this to your attention:

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:12, 24 November 2017 (EST)