Template talk:Imperial Army COACC ranks
The Megatraveller COACC book, Mongoose Mercenary and This table are very much at odds.
} Also, this template has a COACC Colonel, COACC Major and COACC Captain one rank number higher than the GFC equivalent. The COACC book appears to use UK rank titles and US unit nomenclature thus switching Wing and Group to the US size order; The Mongoose book uses UK unit nomenclature/ranks; The template as it stands fudges the UK/US issue, and bumps everyone 1 rank but makes the whole thing really odd when compared to the rest of the Imperial Army. BackworldTraveller (talk) 11:15, 2 June 2020 (EDT) The Mercenary title also has changed the COACC rank structures from a US based structure to a UK based structure. Any suggestions on how this should be addressed? BackworldTraveller (talk) 06:21, 9 June 2020 (EDT)- Going back to the origin, CT-Sup4:CotI originally used a 6-rank officer structure:
- Rank 1 Pilot
- Rank 2 Flight Leader
- Rank 3 Squadron Leader
- Rank 4 Staff Major
- Rank 5 Group Leader
- Rank 6 Air Marshal
- This left the placement of "Wing" ambiguous: was a Wing in Traveller larger than a Group (as in USAF usage), or was a Group larger than a Wing (as in the RAF & Commonwealth usage)? COACC chose to use the USAF organizational structure, but then oddly used the RAF rank structure, swapping Wing Commander and Group Captain (which I always thought awkward). The Wiki-template in this article is a compromise, but I definitely prefer the "proper" RAF structure as the basis (or the RAF structure substituting "Leader" in the officer titles), as opposed to the awkward swapping of Wing Commander and Group Captain.
- Note also that O2 above should definitely be "Flying Officer", as it is the rank of a senior pilot, as opposed to an Officer with duties associated with a Flight, which is an organizational unit (Mongoose misunderstood the usage obviously).
- --WHULorigan (talk) 22:10, 9 June 2020 (EDT)
- Note that in continental militaries, the prefix "Staff-" to a rank generally designates a rank one level (or a fractional level) higher than the rank without the prefix. In CT:Sup4/CotI, "Staff Major" was Rank 4, equivalent to the comparable Army/Marine Lt. Colonel Rank. Other CT & T4 publications (including rank-translations in Alien Modules) consistently used O5/Rank-4 for "Staff Major", as opposed to O4/Rank-3, even in expanded 10-Rank Tables. Also, the unit of "Flight" is noted in the COACC and Company page descriptions, but Flight Leader has been omitted from the table at the appropriate rank.
- --WHULorigan (talk) 09:00, 9 July 2021 (EDT)
| Number | COACC(MT) | Mercenary(Mongoose) | This Template | Presumed (by me) Unit they command |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| O1 | Pilot Officer | {Not Mentioned} | Pilot Officer | None |
| O2 | Flying Officer | Flight Officer | Flying Officer | Aircraft of very small Small-Craft. Platoon Equivalent. |
| O3 | Flight Lieutenant | Flight Lieutenant | Flight Lieutenant | Big/Expensive Aircraft or larger Small-Craft. Company Equivalent. |
| O4 | Squadron Leader | Squadron Leader | Flight Leader | Flight of Aircraft or Small SDB. |
| O5 | Group Captain | Wing Commander | Squadron Leader | Squadron of Aircraft or Notable SDB. Battalion Equivalent |
| O6 | Wing Commander | Group Captain | Group/Wing Leader | Collection of squadrons or Major Monitor (UK Wing;US Group). Regiment Equivalent |
| O7 | Air Commodore | {Not Mentioned} | Air Commodore | A collection of various collections of squadrons (UK Group; US Wing; IN Squadron). Brigade Equivalent |
| 08 | Air Vice Marshal | {Not Mentioned} | Air Marshal (Various) | Division Equivalent |
| O9 | Air Marshal | Air Marshal | {Not Mentioned} | Corps Equivalent |
| O10 | Air Chief Marshal | {Not Mentioned} | {Not Mentioned} | Army Equivalent - All the COACC forces on a world. |
| Number | Rank | Flying Role | Station Role | Senior NCO |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Proposed for Wiki | ||||
| n/a | n/a | n/a | Small group (Crew) | E4 Crew Chief |
| n/a | n/a | n/a | Group of 10 or so (Section) | E5 Flight Sergeant |
| O1 | Pilot Officer | Vehicle or Aircraft | n/a | n/a |
| O2 | Flying Officer | Group of Vehicles or Aircraft (Flight) | Group of 50 or less people (Flight) | E6 Leading Flight Sergeant |
| O3 | Squadron Leader | Group of Flights (Squadron) | Company aka Field Squadron | E7 Senior Flight Sergeant |
| O4 | Staff Major | n/a | Deputy to Station Commander, etc | E7 Senior Flight Sergeant |
| O5 | Wing Leader | Group of Squadrons (Wing) | Station Commander | E8 Master Flight Sergeant |
| O6 | Group Leader | Group of Wings (Group) | E9 Flight Sergeant Major | |
| O7 | Air Commodore | Command Grouping (Regional) | E9 Flight Sergeant Major | |
| O8a | Air Vice Marshal | Command Grouping (Continental) | E9 Flight Sergeant Major | |
| O8 | Air Marshal | Command Grouping (Planetary) | E9 Flight Sergeant Major | |
BackworldTraveller (talk) 02:47, 26 June 2020 (EDT)
NOTES ON RANK TABLE:
The Military Ranks Table uses the current T5 6/7-level Rank System as its base standard, and fills out the ranks of the 9/10-level Rank system by comparison and reference to earlier Traveller rulesets (most notably T4, CT/MT, and some GT and DGP/Traveller Digest), assuming that T4 is the immediate predecessor to T5 and CT/MT is the predecessor to both T4 and GT developmentally. In order to take into account the varying rank-names and their associated relative rank-levels and how they sometimes changed and/or disappeared and reappeared between rulesets (particularly in the Senior NCO Ranks), reference was made to the real-world USAF and British Military Senior NCO Ranks and the distinction of "Appointment Ranks" versus "Substantive Ranks" in order to make a smooth resolution to conflicts.
The two senior-most substantive ranks in the British Military ranking system (in descending order) are:
- Warrant Officer-1
- Warrant Officer-2
But nobody is ever called by these rank-names in practical usage; rather, each of these ranks have a number of different "Appointment Ranks" associated with each grade by which the possessors of those ranks are commonly referred to rather than by the associated substantive rank.
For Example:
- Warrant Officer-1: Conductor; Army/Regimental/Garrison/Staff Sergeant Major; Master Gunner 1st & 2nd Class; Foreman/Yeoman of Signals; Clerk of Works
- Warrant Officer-2: Company/Squadron/Troop/Battery Sergeant Major; Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant; Master Gunner 3rd Class; Trumpet/Pipe/Drum Major; Orderly Room Quartermaster Sergeant; Orderly Room Sergeant; Foreman of Signals
Likewise, in the USAF, the 3 seniormost NCO Grades (E7-E9) are:
USAF Senior NCO Grades:
- E7 Master Sergeant
- E8 Senior Master Sergeant
- E9 Chief Master Sergeant
And ANY ONE of these "Master Sergeants" may have an "Appointment Rank" such as "First Sergeant" (there are no Sergeants Major in the USAF), just as in the modern US Army a Master Sergeant (E8) can be appointed a First Sergeant (E8), or a Sergeant Major (E9) can be appointed a Command Sergeant Major (E9) (= British Regimental Sergeant Major). Previously, during the early Second World War (when the US Army only had grades E1-E7), the senior NCOs were:
- E5 Staff Sergeant (Stripes: 3 chevrons & 1 Rocker) - Squad/Platoon NCO
- E6 Technical Sergeant (Stripes: 3 chevrons & 2 Rockers) - Platoon Leader/NCO
- » Appointment: First Sergeant (Stripes: 3 chevrons & 2 Rockers* w/ center Diamond)- Company Staff NCO
- E7 Master Sergeant (Stripes: 3 chevrons & 3 Rockers)- Battalion-level Specialist Subunit NCOIC
- » Appointment: Sergeant Major (Stripes: 3 chevrons & 3 Rockers w/ center Star)- Battalion Staff NCO
- * - later bumped to E7 with 3 rockers, but junior to Master Sergeant.
When looking at the T4 & T5 Senior NCO Ranks in consideration of the aforementioned discussion, and comparing them to the USAF and US Army Ranks above, one can notice that the two evidence a certain symmetry:
T4 Senior NCO Grades (9-Rank Scale):
- E7 Master Sergeant
- E8 First Sergeant
- E9 Sergeant Major
T5 Senior NCO Grades (6-Rank Scale):
- E5 Master Sergeant
- E6 Sergeant Major
Since most of the Ranks in Traveller CharGen have historically shown operational leadership ranks in command positions (CharGen typically generates Platoon Leaders, not Battalion-HQ Filing Clerks), I have resolved the difference in rank titles between editions and eras by assuming that the names shown in the various rulesets are the actual "Appointment Ranks" for Leadership Billets for those given ranks, and not necessarily the actual Substantive Rank Names themselves.
The names in the tables in the Templates on the Wiki are thus the Substantive Rank Names for the Rank Grades. The Appointment Ranks can be linked to them and noted in actual Wiki-articles or on separate Wiki pages as needed.
Thus:
- E7 Senior Flight Sergeant (Master Sergeant)
- » Appointment(s): Leading Sergeant; Company Quartermaster Sergeant; Leading Gunnery Sergeant (IM); Company Sergeant Major (IM) - (unit-specific/discontinued)*; etc
- E8 Master Flight Sergeant (Senior Master Sergeant)
- » Appointment(s): First Sergeant; Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant; Master Gunnery Sergeant (IM); Battalion Sergeant Major (IM) - (unit-specific/discontinued)*; etc
- E9 Chief Master Flight Sergeant
- » Appointment(s): Regimental Sergeant Major; Chief Master Gunnery Sergeant (IM); etc
- * - DGP/Traveller Digest - Imperial Marine Terran Occupation Force.
- See also Sergeant on the TravellerWiki.
--
- -- WHULorigan (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2025 (UTC)