Template talk:Detail

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Notes (2017)[edit]

This template is used on too many articles, and should only be used on a few to indicate a serious lack of detail on an significant section to make them complete.
- 09:32, 1 June 2017‎ Tjoneslo

User:Tjoneslo, how many articles do you feel would be appropriate for this template?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:39, 3 June 2017 (EDT)

None.
There are three groups of articles where this template is applied.
  1. The first is the empty world articles.
  2. The second is the articles which are largely complete, but in a basic state, but an added advanced layout has a large number of empty headers.
  3. The third is where the template is added to an article as a cut/paste even though it really doesn't need to be there as there are no missing details.
The third one should be remove as it is wrong. The first and the second are part of the experiment to encourage people to edit the wiki. It is becoming my opinion this experiment has not produced the results desired and think we should focus efforts on completing some of the 5300+ Category: Needs Work articles, rather than adding to the total.
- Tjoneslo (talk) 22:31, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

I use the detail template, the incomplete template and others as they are. I have no idea what you intend for them or others until you define them or somehow tell me. I have defined and created so many of these tags to have you tell me that my vision, often absent of your feedback, is wrong.
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POINTS OF DISCUSSION:
P1. It's not wrong, just different than what you envisioned. Telling people they are wrong will reduce your volunteer list. Instead, I recommend co-opting them to your vision through demonstrated, repeated commitment, much patience, and active, inspirational action. You do many of these things so well.
P2. In the absence of definition, I just use the templates, push development forward, and prompt you to think of what you want. By all means, define them to be what you want. Your preferences for their definition is very often not intuitive for many of us, myself included.
P3. In a world with tens of thousands of worlds and entries needed, it's pretty reasonable to have many articles (5,300+) with "needs work, detail, incomplete" or other such tags. It's the same at the Battletech, Star Trek, and Star wars sites. I have worked on all of those sites. I have the experience.
P4. Overwhelmingly large wikis like this develop incrementally over time. I am glad that your OCD triggers a compulsion in you to want to reduce the number of not-yet-fully-developed articles. Mine does too. I suspect that mine is less of a compulsion than yours though. In many ways, not all.
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RESPONSA:
R1. The experiment is working (not a failure), just not on the scale you desire. Passive communication through tags and online forums is much less effective than openly communicating with folks directly through private e-mail, texts, phone calls, and personalized communication. That is one of the reasons I have been successful finding volunteers. Team building matters.
R2. Another good strategy for attracting volunteers would be to make everything user-friendly, as much as possible. This wiki often strays from that principle.
R3. I am actively working on moving the wiki forward at my pace with my own priorities. I have made much progress and momentum will build over time. MJD recently complemented the efforts in his way. So has MWM. and others. I would love more of your assistance with the nitty gritty of world entry and the monotonous aspects of the site. We are heading in the right direction.
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I very much appreciate your sagely advice and viewpoints. Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:15, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

The complaint about the Detail template is the inclusion the third set of articles listed above. Can you please describe in detail when and where you think this template should be applied, and more importantly, when you think an article no longer needs this template and it can be removed. Please put this in the noinclude section on the page.
If you have ideas about how to move the wiki forward, make it more user friendly, or encourage additional contributions, please write them on the Forums. Having a reference of good ideas is always useful, and can provide direction.
Tjoneslo (talk) 11:57, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

Any article that is not complete or at least mostly complete should receive it. As in the ones that need detail.
What do you think, Thomas?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 23:06, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

I find this overly vague and subjective. I know you think you have a very clear idea, the question is do you think someone else (like WHULorigan‎ or ssteve) could explain this standard to a new editor?
For example, what is the missing detail in Ael Yael? Tjoneslo (talk) 06:12, 7 June 2017 (EDT)

Well, please expand on what you think it should be then.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:12, 7 June 2017 (EDT)

Articles that should not have the Detail template:
  • Articles where we've agreed that the text is largely complete, even through it's only in a basic state of completion, for example Psionic Shield Helmet.
  • Articles that are marked with category: Complete, for example Na.
  • Articles using the basic layout as defined in the Manual of Style, where all the headers have one or more sentences of content (other than "No information yet available"), For example Serpent's Reach (world)
Articles that should have the Detail template:
  • Article using the basic layout as defined in the Manual of Style, where not all the headers have any content (or only "No information yet available"), for example Shaakhish (world)
  • Articles which have the advanced layout as defined in the Manual of Style, where one or more of the headers don't have any content (or only "No information yet available"), For example Prospero (world).
Tjoneslo (talk) 20:28, 4 January 2018 (EST)

That sounds reasonable. I will think it over. Thank you.

  • I will try to keep to this idea, but I often do large batches and I may slip up from time to time.
  • If an article has empty spots, I think the detail area should still warrant detail: Prospero (world)
  • We don't know if that is the limit of available knowledge until we really research it. I have been discovering that we have much more than we think we do. We just need to research and compile it.
  • I am open to a different tag if you desire it. My primary goal is to have a note that welcomes the public to add to the article. That strategy is working elsewhere within charted space. If we build it, they will come.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:43, 5 January 2018 (EST)