Talk:Principality of Caledon
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Ok, we know that the founders of Caledon are Solomani (why else would they use a Scottish Dialect)
But why would they form the type of government that they did?
Could it be that some of them were part of Middle Ages recreation group?
Perhaps the SCA? (Society for creative anachronism)
Any comments?
- Russvenlos (talk) 03:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
- The Scots and Irish already have a strong sense of culture, clan, tradition, and history as a people, as evidenced by the continued existence of Highland Culture, Dress, and Traditions and the export of the Tartan as a heraldic device worldwide, even to other cultures and organizations. The continued worldwide phenomenon of Highland and Celtic Games and Festivals that include many of the traditional combat sports and feats of strength and other competitions described in the Caledonian articles suggest that this might merely be a continuation of that long tradition during the Long Night in diverse places where people had to hold on to their identity and what they had during difficult times in a colonial environment (considering that their ancestors were either original settlers from a dead Imperium or later Colonials from a pocket empire of the Long Night era, who had to endure both the Reavers of the period and incursions of Aslan ihatei. The Prinicipality as an interstellar polity may have been set up in -371, but the colonists of Caledon and/or the region were likely there longer than that (perhaps much longer).
- --WHULorigan (talk) 04:16, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- But the Scots and Irish both have strong antimonarch movements. I would expect them to set up republics. they clearly did not do that here. I know of few pro-monarch groups outside of the SCA (SCA.org) I'm just trying to justify why they would setup this type of government.
- Russvenlos (talk) 00:52, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- But the Scots and Irish both have strong antimonarch movements. I would expect them to set up republics. they clearly did not do that here. I know of few pro-monarch groups outside of the SCA (SCA.org) I'm just trying to justify why they would setup this type of government.
- The fact that modern 21st Century Scots and Irish tend to be anti-monarchistic and republican does not mean that will always be so among all groups and in all places into the distant future. Further, the modern 21st century anti-monarch groups are anti-monarchic in their sentiments largely stemming from roots that have to do with struggles against a monarchy perceived as foreign and imposed upon them by outsiders. The History of Charted Space from the periods of both the First and Second Imperia as well as the Long Night are riddled with local and interstellar monarchies that arose through various means, not to mention the rise of the Third Imperium itself from the Sylean Federation. None of these required an analog to an SCA-type group in order to form. I don't realistically see the SCA as a group with the requisite skills necessary to capably set up and maintain a formal and enduring interstellar government and society. That is why I suggested something of a broader cultural movement as a background for the eventual formation of the polity.
- --WHULorigan (talk) 03:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that modern 21st Century Scots and Irish tend to be anti-monarchistic and republican does not mean that will always be so among all groups and in all places into the distant future. Further, the modern 21st century anti-monarch groups are anti-monarchic in their sentiments largely stemming from roots that have to do with struggles against a monarchy perceived as foreign and imposed upon them by outsiders. The History of Charted Space from the periods of both the First and Second Imperia as well as the Long Night are riddled with local and interstellar monarchies that arose through various means, not to mention the rise of the Third Imperium itself from the Sylean Federation. None of these required an analog to an SCA-type group in order to form. I don't realistically see the SCA as a group with the requisite skills necessary to capably set up and maintain a formal and enduring interstellar government and society. That is why I suggested something of a broader cultural movement as a background for the eventual formation of the polity.
- OK, it seemed to me like an interesting story hook, but if no one likes it. I will drop it.
- Russvenlos (talk) 04:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
- OK, it seemed to me like an interesting story hook, but if no one likes it. I will drop it.
- Not trying to shut you down, I just want to make sure that whatever is considered concerning background is well thought out and believable. I personally am a 16th-17th Century Military Living History reenactor (mostly British Isles, and some Swedish and Dutch), so I have a soft spot for the Reaver's Deep and the Principality, as I am sure did the Keith Brothers who initially created it (who were of proud Scottish Clan Keith ancestry). As you are thinking about the background, keep in mind that the Monarchy had as its origin the pre-polity world government of Caledon itself when its first ruler united the Clans and Dukes of the world at that time from whatever form of government or balkanization that they had beforehand (see History of the Principality of Caledon, first timeline entry). There is also this slightly obscure reference to its history in the article on the Gheldaght Language that they speak as a second language of culture: Gheldaght: History & Background (Historical Linguistics). There is certainly no reason that an SCA-like group couldn't exist among them, and if it did perhaps even be fairly popular and influential in people's thinking and outlook (even politically) considering their background as currently outlined. But for the sake of believability, I would not make it the primary cause and motivator. That should be something that has broader and more pervasive causes and motivations arising from both the culture and the local situation(s) at the time. That is just my personal opinion, of course. YMMV.
- --WHULorigan (talk) 04:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not trying to shut you down, I just want to make sure that whatever is considered concerning background is well thought out and believable. I personally am a 16th-17th Century Military Living History reenactor (mostly British Isles, and some Swedish and Dutch), so I have a soft spot for the Reaver's Deep and the Principality, as I am sure did the Keith Brothers who initially created it (who were of proud Scottish Clan Keith ancestry). As you are thinking about the background, keep in mind that the Monarchy had as its origin the pre-polity world government of Caledon itself when its first ruler united the Clans and Dukes of the world at that time from whatever form of government or balkanization that they had beforehand (see History of the Principality of Caledon, first timeline entry). There is also this slightly obscure reference to its history in the article on the Gheldaght Language that they speak as a second language of culture: Gheldaght: History & Background (Historical Linguistics). There is certainly no reason that an SCA-like group couldn't exist among them, and if it did perhaps even be fairly popular and influential in people's thinking and outlook (even politically) considering their background as currently outlined. But for the sake of believability, I would not make it the primary cause and motivator. That should be something that has broader and more pervasive causes and motivations arising from both the culture and the local situation(s) at the time. That is just my personal opinion, of course. YMMV.