Template talk:SophontData

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Revision as of 20:36, 25 August 2019 by Maksim-Smelchak (talk | contribs) (→‎Alphabetized Template (2017-18))
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Notes (2017)[edit]

Great addition, Thomas, the Psi component.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 13:07, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

Alphabetized Template (2017-18)[edit]

|name    = 
|alsosee = 
|atmo    = Standard
|author  = TBD 
|canon   = Yes
|caption = TBD
|classification= TBD
|code    = 
|confluence= Non-humanoid
|environ = TBD
|era     = 1105
|extinct = Extant
|footnote= TBD 
|government= Unidentified
|gravity = Standard
|home    = Unknown
|image   = Imperial Sunburst-Sun-IISS-Traveller.gif
|lang    = Unknown Native Language
|limbs   = #-ped
|locomotion= Walker (Ambulatory)
|multi   = No
|pop     = TBD
|primarystar= TBD
|psi     = Standard
|ref     = TBD
|size    = Unknown
|status  = Minor Race
|symmetry= #-ial
|TL      = TL-8  
|TLrange = TL:7-9 
|type    = Unknown
|weight  = Unknown

Order of topics (2018)[edit]

Why are you changing the order of the display items in the template? 07:27, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

Just experimenting. Change it back if you like.

  • Why was it like that?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:47, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

Couple of reasons. The wiki is still supposed to be a character reference, so having the most important information first: What does it look like? how big is it? will it eat me? It also follows the order (mostly) of display items in the Template:Animal Simple. Both of which derive from the T5 Core book and several earlier core rule books about ordering of important information. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:02, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

Okey dokey. Good logic.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 23:14, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

New Categories (2018)[edit]

Base Information
Classification {{{type}}}
Status {{{status}}}
Terrain {{{terrain}}}
Locomotion {{{locomotion}}}
Size {{{size}}}
Weight {{{weight}}}
Communications {{{language}}}
Social Structure {{{government}}}
Technology Epoch {{{epoch}}}
Psi Potential {{{psi}}}
Homeworld {{{home}}}
Multi-world {{{multi}}}
Extinct {{{extinct}}}
Canon {{{canon}}}
Reference {{{ref}}}

In taking another look at it, it may be useful to have this template look a lot more like the Template: Animal simple. So take animal template and add the fields "status" and "psi" to the base information section. I'd love to leave/add the "locomotion" field. I'm not sure about the Strength, Speed, Social Structure, Weapons, Armor fields. Recommendations ?

Tjoneslo (talk) 07:59, 28 August 2018 (EDT)

Sophonts are about tools and technology. That's what differentiates sophonts and creatures.

I think it's a good idea to have a TL range (TL:13-15) and an exact TL average (TL-15).
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:00, 28 August 2018 (EDT)

I'm not as enthusiastic about that idea because it ties the entry to a specific era. Like the Template:UWP we might think about setting a set of values for each era. But that would require more thought. Tjoneslo (talk) 17:42, 29 August 2018 (EDT)

It all starts somewhere. Easier to differentiate than not know at all.

  • An environment tab would also be very useful.
  • The psi tab is really great.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:46, 29 August 2018 (EDT)

Re: Environment. How different would that be from the terrain setting from Template:Animal and Template:Animal simple? Tjoneslo (talk) 20:17, 29 August 2018 (EDT)

Same. Terrain and environment.

  • I am not choosy.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 06:47, 14 October 2018 (EDT)

So I took another look at the TL Average / TL Range proposal. I think having the two items would be redundant. And since technological evolution of sophonts never matches the Terran example, I find myself drawn to the TL range as the one that should be included. I find the number system hard to read, doesn't sort well, and using e-hex (which we should be using instead) even harder. But the names for the ranges from the T5 Core Rules book looks useful, which is helpfully copied into the Wiki (see e.g. Found Tools Period). Work better? Tjoneslo (talk) 19:39, 4 September 2018 (EDT)


  • Found Tools
  • Tool Making
  • Mass Production
  • Processors
  • Gravitics
  • Biologics
  • Artificials
  • Matter Transport
  • Transformations
  • Psionics
  • Stellar
  • Pocket Universe
  • Singularity

Any Further thoughts? Tjoneslo (talk) 07:35, 25 September 2018 (EDT)

Well, there is a negative TL side of the spectrum, but they aren't technology users so they probably don't apply.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:59, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

I can see it working, but the TL-range and TL still work fine.

  • It's always going to be abstract to a degree. That's the nature of TL.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 06:49, 14 October 2018 (EDT)

Government codes (2018-19)[edit]

Two new additions, and a new header:

Communications Still deciding if this should be a single primary language, or a list of most frequently used languages.

Social Structure / Government This should use the list of government code types as defined by the T5 rules and/or the general Traveller Rules.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 23:48, 7 October 2018 (EDT)

Ok. Nice.

  • I am not sure how we can make government happen.
  • Should it just be UWP gov codes?
  • T5 Core is always safe.
  • Nice work.
  • Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:34, 8 October 2018 (EDT)

Interesting question. I was thinking of just using the one word description for the government codes. The other option would be to upload the government codes, in a similar manner to the trade codes, and use either the short name (e.g. Anarchy) and link them. This would also allow adding some of the Non-standard government code (e.g. the Aslan or Droyne ones). Tjoneslo (talk) 07:55, 9 October 2018 (EDT)

I like your idea.

  • I still have the code to build out for the rest of the UWP. Almost there.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:56, 9 October 2018 (EDT)

Government links (2019)[edit]

Thomas, would you please update Template:StellarData.layout to point to the government codes articles?

  • Each of the standard government types now has its own AAB page.
  • Thanks for all of your hard work at the wiki.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:03, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

The Template:StellarData.layout already includes links to the governments by name. The Template:UWPexpand, as used in this template and shows the UWP values interpreted in the pop up box. This can’t, or really shouldn’t, include links because the user has no way to click on them. Or have I missed what you are referring to? Tjoneslo (talk) 11:07, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

I must have picked the wrong template.

  • I mean the UWP one using the cargo table features that you uploaded to Spinward Marches Sector, Dagu, etc.
  • Such as at Regina (world).
  • Which template is that? I get lost in all the sub-templates.
  • They refer to Government/summary rather than individual government pages such as Impersonal Bureaucracy.
  • Please.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:19, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

Ah, Template:GovCode. It's linked off of the Government/summary page. I updated the links. But the individual pages still need to be updated. Most of them are simply "TBD" pages. Tjoneslo (talk) 12:49, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

Can you generate me a list of what needs to be built and I'll do it, please?

  • I also am hoping for some kind of template to stick at the bottom of the TL Epoch pages that will populate sophonts from that epoch, please.
  • This would be similar to the hull pages or others like it.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 14:19, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

Translation of old template parameters to new (2019)[edit]

When the SophontData template was updated, the following changes would be required to the template in each article:

Parameter name changes. These are changes to the parameter names only. The values for these parameters remains the same.

  • Environ -> terrain
  • lang -> languages
  • TLrange or TLepoch -> epoch

Parameter and data changes. These parameters have both been renamed, and the value needs to be updated.

  • extinct -> existing (value needs to be inverted)

Data changes. These parameters have had their range of values reconsidered.

  • type (values needs to be verified as in the list)
  • status (values need to be verified as in the list)

New parameters. These are new parameters in the template. They will not have values and will need to be filled in.

  • locomotion
  • government
  • uwp | pop
  • primary

Tjoneslo (talk) 08:55, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

Tjoneslo, why do we need to change the names of the parameters?

  • I am a big fan of leaving parameter names stable.
  • Unless the change is a serious benefit, I don think it is worth it.
  • I am not fond of the lpass and hpass for infoboxship, but I have left it alone.
  • I am also not fond of binary or limited options for a parameter. That's too limiting.
  • What is the gain in these?
    • TLrange or TLepoch -> epoch
    • extinct -> existing (value needs to be inverted)
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:00, 19 August 2019 (EDT)