Forum:World page layout format

Forums: Index > Watercooler > World page layout format

Current format criticisms (2020)

1. There is a data page that takes loads of effort to populate, yet the templates for the explains don't reference it. Cut and paste is time-heavy and likely to end with partially completed entries out of kilter with the data page.
2. There is confusion between "Point in Time" descriptions and "Timeline" descriptions that make the history part of "History and Background" clunky.
3. TravellerMap.com is stated as definitive. Could the data be driven from that source?
4. The headers in the infobox and the headers in the main document don't correlate neatly.
5. Mainworld Map is a link in TravellerMap. For Gabrael (world) I've added the URL under astrography. Could an image be pulled? Can this be driven by era?
6. Header levels don't make much sense as they are. Example shown below.
   • Golden Age Summary
   • Era: New Era
   • Description (Astrography & Planetology)
     • Monostellar System
     • System Data
     • Mainworld Data
       • Mainworld Size (S)
       • Mainworld Atmosphere (A)
       • Mainworld Hydrosphere (H)
       • Mainworld Geography & Topography (Mostly unused)
       • Mainworld Map
     • Native Lifeforms (Why only Native...Imported forms are also useful)
       • Fauna
       • Flora
   • History & Background (Dossier)
     • Culture (How does this differ from World Culture below?)
     • Imperial High (Landed) Nobility
     • World Starport
       • Summary
       • 1105
       • 1200
     • World Technology Level
       • 1105
       • 1200
     • World Government
       • Summary
       • 1105
       • 1200
     • World Law Level
       • Summary
       • 1105
       • 1200
     • World Military
       • 1105
       • 1200
     • World Economy
       • Trade Data
     • World Demographics
     • World Culture (How does this differ from "Culture" above?)
       • Urbanization
     • Historical Data
     • World Timeline
   • References & Contributors (Sources)
7. Keeping the "Description" and "History and Background" headings is making the structure difficult to follow. Say what they are!
8. The "UWP Explain" template doesn't follow this format or fit naturally within it. Where a planet has changing demographics, etc. over time UWP explain actually makes a coherent story harder to describe as the physical and societal parts are chunked together.
   1. Taking Ikhaba (world) as a complex example, this changes hands several times between Vargr, Imperial and Megacorporation with differing influences at different periods. The Planetology stays constant; the demographics change. (n.b. Presumably, the planetology could change if a planet is seriously nuked as happens between 1130 and 1201 (or 1201 and 1900) in many descriptions - although TravellerMap doesn't show this much if at all.)

BackworldTraveller (talk) 02:42, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

Answers in no specific order: Tjoneslo (talk) 08:13, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

The data page for the world articles is generated and updated by an automated external process, the PyRoute program, as part of the Trade map generation. Three were only four sectors where the data was completely uploaded: Dagudashaag, Deneb, Knoellighz, and Spinward Marches. All of the other world articles should be using the Template:UWP, which is a manual, but simpler, update process. For the sectors where there is a data page the updates are done automatically. The request has been please don't update the data pages because there is an automated, if irregularly and infrequently run, process to update them. Because of the manner of the automated process, it works best on full sectors.

Sorry - didn't realise data pages were automated - There is no indicator to warn an editor of this fact on the page. I've populated some by hand for Khouth Subsector and Aegaek Subsector. BackworldTraveller (talk) 11:34, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

The JumpMap provided by TravellerMap is a specific service provided by the site. And there are templates to make that happen (See Template:JumpMap for the core of this process). It should be possible to do this for the world map. Please keep in mind the World Map is a different site from the Traveller Map site, and it is entirely possible the wiki linking to the site to pull images may cause the site to overload.

The links for the map are long and complex. I suspect that formatting it isn't simple and would require duplicating what the TravellerMap uses some how. Cutting and pasting the URL works OK for now - but may be an issue if the site closes. BackworldTraveller (talk) 11:34, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

Manual of Style/world has the current agreed upon layout template for the world articles. I take your suggestion above as a recommendation to update the template(s) in the manual of style. I agree the layout of the infobox and headers don't align, they were developed separately to serve different organization needs.

Should that be reviewed? BackworldTraveller (talk) 11:34, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

One of the biggest objections to the established detailed layout templates is the content of the article should drive the layout of the article, not force content into a pre-established layout. The content is what we are be presenting, so have the headers describe and organize the information into useful and easy to find.

Nothing worse than lots of sections with no data. Especially obvious in the Fleet pages as 90% of the fleets have only ever appeared as a number in one publication for the date 1116 - and that publication duplicates fleet numbers horribly, and gets miss-quoted in other publications for other dates! BackworldTraveller (talk) 11:34, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

How to organize articles according to era or timeline is a discussion which has been going on since the beginning of the wiki. The challenge has been not every article has information for each era. So what happens if there is no information for a given era?

n.b. The Manual of Style/world doesn't give any guidance on how to cope with multiple eras. BackworldTraveller (talk) 11:34, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

World Page Formats (2018)

Ensign Phillips, I moved this to it's own topic because I felt it needed a separate discussion. Tjoneslo (talk) 07:24, 18 November 2018 (EST)

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I just completed a revision of the detailed planetary template. The example of this new template may be found at Manyana (Daibei Sector, Iingar Subsector 2901). This revision is an attempt to bring the template into closer alignment with the Traveller Map format which the Wiki links to as well as eliminate duplicate entries. I've also attempted to "drill down" the data stream from the highest level (Astrographical) down through system level (Star Type and Planetary) and finally both primary and supplemental Mainworld data.

I moved the UWP section to a more prominent placement above the Mainworld sections as this data is, I feel, of primary interest to the more casual viewer of the Wiki.

As a final step I tidied up, as necessary combined and alphabetized the data sections to hopefully present a more streamlined table of contents section.

I welcome comments as always and hope this missive finds each of you both hail and hearty. Until next we speak... please take care.

Ensign Phillips (talk) 03:40, 18 November 2018 (EST)

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I've always been skeptical of alphabetizing sections. My preference is for putting sections in order of importance. Which, of course, leads to discussions of what the order of importance. I make the following suggestions:

The Primary Mainworld Data section is missing a few UWP values, which given that we've not defined templates for them is not surprising.

From the Supplemental Mainworld Data, move the Demographics and Lifeforms section under the Primary Mainworld under Population (one of the UWP missing).

Move the the Language/s (I also dislike this way of writing singular/plural, please just use "languages"), Military, and Urbanization under the World Culture section.

Move the Geography & Topography, and Map under the Primary Mainworld Data / Size.

This leaves the Background, Historical & Miscellaneous Data and World Timeline. These should be their own "Planetary history" top level section.

Tjoneslo (talk) 07:24, 18 November 2018 (EST)

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I am open to experimentation with the layouts.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:19, 18 November 2018 (EST)