Difference between revisions of "Forum:Trade classification: Ht and Lt"

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:: >at one of the teleconferences earlier this year.   
 
:: >at one of the teleconferences earlier this year.   
  
:: It is ''imperative'' that if you receive these kinds of directives from Marc, or Matthew, or other important personages that you post them here, in the wiki forum, ''as soon as possible''. This lack of communication is both distressing and frustrating.  
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It is ''imperative'' that if you receive these kinds of directives from Marc, or Matthew, or other important personages that you post them here, in the wiki forum, ''as soon as possible''. This lack of communication is both distressing and frustrating.  
 
:: The reason you '''must''' do this, especially as both a member of the Wiki Editing team and the Inner Circle, is to ensure that all the wiki editors and contributors can discuss these directives. More importantly, know of them to implement them properly.  
 
:: The reason you '''must''' do this, especially as both a member of the Wiki Editing team and the Inner Circle, is to ensure that all the wiki editors and contributors can discuss these directives. More importantly, know of them to implement them properly.  
 
:: And yes, I am going to do Dagudashaag member worlds this way. So far it is only the one worlds that we were arguing about that needs to be changed.  
 
:: And yes, I am going to do Dagudashaag member worlds this way. So far it is only the one worlds that we were arguing about that needs to be changed.  
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: Ok. Leaving Lt and Ht codes alone in Dagu until further notice.  
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Ok. Leaving Lt and Ht codes alone in Dagu until further notice.  
 
: I am sorry to hear that you are frustrated and angry. Be well.
 
: I am sorry to hear that you are frustrated and angry. Be well.
 
: I have heard from many others that they would love to hear more from you so that all the wiki editors and contributors can discuss these directives and, more importantly, know how to implement them properly.  
 
: I have heard from many others that they would love to hear more from you so that all the wiki editors and contributors can discuss these directives and, more importantly, know how to implement them properly.  
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:: This forum on the wiki is the correct place to discuss any and all matters that impact the wiki. It forms the public historical record of the wiki's design and directions. I understand and appreciate the need for conversation outside of the wiki regarding broader issues in the Traveller Universe. But for issues that affect the wiki, they must be posted here for discussion and dissemination. [[User:Tjoneslo|Tjoneslo]] ([[User talk:Tjoneslo|talk]]) 22:16, 16 July 2017 (EDT)
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:: This forum on the wiki is the correct place to discuss any and all matters that impact the wiki. It forms the public historical record of the wiki's design and directions. I understand and appreciate the need for conversation outside of the wiki regarding broader issues in the Traveller Universe. But for issues that affect the wiki, they must be posted here for discussion and dissemination.  
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: - [[User:Tjoneslo|Tjoneslo]] ([[User talk:Tjoneslo|talk]]) 22:16, 16 July 2017 (EDT)
  
 
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: Thanks for your response. Interesting application of the spirit of the law.
 
: Thanks for your response. Interesting application of the spirit of the law.
 
: - [[User:Maksim-Smelchak|Maksim-Smelchak]] ([[User talk:Maksim-Smelchak|talk]]) 07:18, 17 July 2017 (EDT)
 
: - [[User:Maksim-Smelchak|Maksim-Smelchak]] ([[User talk:Maksim-Smelchak|talk]]) 07:18, 17 July 2017 (EDT)
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== Notes (2019)==
 +
The Mongoose codes have been accepted into use.
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: - [[User:Maksim-Smelchak|Maksim-Smelchak]] ([[User talk:Maksim-Smelchak|talk]]) 09:20, 28 March 2019 (EDT)

Revision as of 08:20, 28 March 2019

Forums: Index > Watercooler > Trade classification: Ht and Lt



Discussion (2017)

There are two Trade classification codes used by Mongoose Traveller which are not in T5: Lt (low technology) and Ht (High technology). In the Mongoose definition, Lt is (IIRC) any world below TL–8, and HT is any world TL–12 or higher.

This definition works ok for the Mongoose data set, which is the Third Imperium in 1105. But the Wiki covers a broader area, in both time and space, it's quite easy to find places where the definition no longer conveys the intention of the trade classification code.

The obvious example would be Milieu 0, where the maximum TL is 12. Wouldn't a TL–11 world also be counted as Ht, as it is at or near the top of the TL scale for the time.

So I'm recommending we adopt the Ht/Lt trade classification code, but with a slight change. If you read the generated summary for each subsector (e.g. Shallows Subsector/summary), and each sector (e.g. Dagudashaag Sector/summary). The last sentence of these summary as a range of TLs for the area. For example: The average technology level is 9 (with most between 6 and 11).

The average TL is exactly what would would think (sum TLs divided by number of worlds, rounded to an integer). The upper and lower numbers are one standard deviation, covering about 68% of the worlds.

In this Wiki definition, the Lt code would apply to any world with TL–5 or less, the Ht code applied to any world with TL–12 or higher.

For areas or eras with different set of TLs you would get a different range for Ht and Lt worlds. This would be much more useful than a fixed set of values that may or may not apply to the space or time.

The only question I have is how large an area should we consider. We could use either the Subsector or Sector. Tjoneslo (talk) 23:41, 8 June 2017 (EDT)


I support this notion. Sounds imminently logical.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:09, 9 June 2017 (EDT)

Lt and Ht are set for 1105 datasets, the default at the wiki.
Lt covers 5 and below.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:24, 13 July 2017 (EDT)

That was the whole point of my rant above. I wanted to change the definition. The suggestion was shrinking the spacial component from "Charted Space" to "Subsector" or "Sector" so we could expand the temporal component and still have everything make sense.
Now I'm confused, Either you like the suggestion or you don't. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:22, 13 July 2017 (EDT)

I think that perhaps I have not grasped what you want. What do you want?
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:59, 13 July 2017 (EDT)

Change the definition of Ht to be "Above one standard deviation from the average TL of the subsector". and the definition of Lt to be "Below one standard deviation from the average TL of the Subsector". Tjoneslo (talk) 19:49, 14 July 2017 (EDT)

I don't think that is a good idea. Mongoose does it by Charted Space.

The reason I included the feature after everyone else rejected it for year is because FFE directed me to make the entries maximally compatible across the versions of Traveller. It was at one of the teleconferences earlier this year.
I don't think we have anyone willing to redo the over 10,000 worlds that would need to be checked and redone. Even with automation, it doesn't seem wise.
If you decide you must redo Dagu that way, go for it. Please leave a post on the discussion pages of each subsector, sector, or whatever detail level you desire so that others will know what is going on if they check.
Please let me know your decision.
Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:57, 14 July 2017 (EDT)

> The reason I included the feature after everyone else rejected
> it for year is because FFE directed me to make the entries
> maximally compatible across the versions of Traveller. It was
>at one of the teleconferences earlier this year.

It is imperative that if you receive these kinds of directives from Marc, or Matthew, or other important personages that you post them here, in the wiki forum, as soon as possible. This lack of communication is both distressing and frustrating.

The reason you must do this, especially as both a member of the Wiki Editing team and the Inner Circle, is to ensure that all the wiki editors and contributors can discuss these directives. More importantly, know of them to implement them properly.
And yes, I am going to do Dagudashaag member worlds this way. So far it is only the one worlds that we were arguing about that needs to be changed.
Tjoneslo (talk) 20:30, 15 July 2017 (EDT)

Ok. Leaving Lt and Ht codes alone in Dagu until further notice.

I am sorry to hear that you are frustrated and angry. Be well.
I have heard from many others that they would love to hear more from you so that all the wiki editors and contributors can discuss these directives and, more importantly, know how to implement them properly.
When someone wants people to communicate with them, it is important to form warm, human relationships with them. It's one of the first steps to earning respect and authority from others. I learned it in the military and diplomatic corps. Both the Greeks and Romans discussed it as well.
Thank you.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:34, 15 July 2017 (EDT)

This forum on the wiki is the correct place to discuss any and all matters that impact the wiki. It forms the public historical record of the wiki's design and directions. I understand and appreciate the need for conversation outside of the wiki regarding broader issues in the Traveller Universe. But for issues that affect the wiki, they must be posted here for discussion and dissemination.
- Tjoneslo (talk) 22:16, 16 July 2017 (EDT)

Thanks for your response. Interesting application of the spirit of the law.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:18, 17 July 2017 (EDT)

Notes (2019)

The Mongoose codes have been accepted into use.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:20, 28 March 2019 (EDT)