Category talk:Minor Human Race

Notes (2007)

A number of the groups listed on this page are not minor human races. Some a variant human races. Some are races in the sense we use it on Earth today, but which the Imperium does not (Subrace?). Some are purely ethnic groups (like the Irklan).

I'd like to suggest introducing a new category that would include these non-MHR groups. I'm not sure what to call it. Maybe 'Ethnic group'?

I'm still getting ito the swing of things, so I'm not quite sure of the etiquette here. It seems like a big thing to introduce unilaterally (Besides, I don't know how to set up a category). Opinions?

- Rancke 13:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

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This is probably a case of insufficent imagination on our part. We're pretty lax, given the number of contributers, about making changes, even what seem like major ones. You want to split off the "Variant Human race" and the "Human ethnic group" categories, and did you want to split it any further?

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I think 'Variant Human race' is sufficiently different that it deserves a category of its own (MHRs were scattered by the Ancients 300,000 years ago; VHRs were geneered by someone within historical times).

'Human Ethnic group' is also quite different, and there are quite a lot of them, too.

The one I'm dubious about is 'Subrace'. Apart from the Solomani, I can't think of any other examples than the three Iltharan ones. Also, ISTR a mention somewhere that the Vilani originally thought that the Terrans were a coalition of MHRs because they weren't used to a single race being as diverse as the Solomani were. So we'd end up with a category with only three entries.

- Rancke 15:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

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I don't understand the differences between the definitions of "sub-race" and "ethnic group" that makes the two ideas distinct, especially in a Traveller context. I vastly perefer the term "ethnic group" even if we have to change canon references.

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"Ethnic" means "of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background". "Subrace" would be what we on Earth today call a race (a term that has taken on a new meaning in the Imperium), namely "a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits". On Terra we have three or four of those (I'd list them, but Merriam-Webster informs me that one of the terms I learned as a boy is "sometimes considered offensive"). And they may no longer exist on Terra by Year 1100. On Drexilthar that would be High Iltharan, Tring, and Akakhad. The difference is real enough. But perhaps it would be best to just ignore that. As I said, a category with only three entries seems a bit of a waste.

Rancke 14:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

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So yes, use "Variant Human race" and "Human ethnic group" as categories. And there should also be a "Vargr ethnic group" category at some point (there are at least 6 according to V&V), but I can't think of any other race that might have such a division. Tjoneslo 17:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

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I think you're referring to six Vargr subraces, or possibly six Vargr subspecies (The distinction is pretty fluid). Every Vargr group classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background would be a separate ethnic group. Most races will be divided into ethnic groups. And ethnic groups can include beings of different species. One of the definitions of 'Darrian' is one such (Anyone living in the Darrian Confederation, Darrians, Solomani, and Aslan alike).

Rancke 14:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

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Creating a category involves add the [[Category: Variant Human race]] to the bottom of the page. Or adding "Variant Human race" to the {{LE[N]}} template. Save the page. This will have a red link in the category grouping at the bottom of the page. Click on it to get an edit page for the category, add some text to describe the category and save the page.

On wiki with more contributers, the usual policy about making changes affecting more that a few pages is exactly what you've done. Add a note to an appropirate talk page, and the interested people vote yes or no. So I vote yes.

Tjoneslo 14:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Ethnic Group vs Subrace (2007)

I think the definition of "ethnic group" is sufficiently inclusive that we don't need to create a "sub-race" category. The wikipedia discussion of Ethnic group is also enligntening. Part of the issue here is that SF in general, and Traveller to a lesser extent conflates race with culture, in a way that an alien race only has one culture, and each alien culture consists of only one alien race. Traveller authors have, in some cases, made an effort to make the distinction.

This would be my suggestion for the text of the Ethnic group category for this wiki:

An Ethnic group is a large group of Sophonts classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background. This may include divisions within a Race, for example Vargr have many different cultural groups. Or an ethnic group may include members of several races with a shared cultural background, like the Darrians.

- Tjoneslo 19:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)