Latest revision as of 14:14, 6 November 2019

2018 Posts[edit]

Use the TL template, not TL links please (2018)[edit]

Please use, or leave, the use of the Template:TL, and don't use the TL links. First the TL template creates the correct links, second it does the formatting correctly. Thanks.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 15:18, 13 January 2018 (EST)

Why? The TL-9 type works just as well.

Why, in your opinion, is it better?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:20, 13 January 2018 (EST)

The two reasons mentioned above. The template creates correctly formatted links, which is not apparent with the link setup. Second, it creates links to the correct page(s) as needed. It's also the standard used in the wiki.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 15:23, 13 January 2018 (EST)

Thank you for your advice. Much appreciated

The TL template is not longer the standard used in the wiki. It's now an optional choice.
It's no longer the default. It is certainly still permitted.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:26, 13 January 2018 (EST)

Thomas, please explain why how the TL template benefits you in detail?

Can't the goods template count the TL for you?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:43, 13 January 2018 (EST)

The Template:TL is designed, like all of the text expansion templates to ensure the layout, formatting, and links included in the wiki all follow a consistent standard. They exist to make contributors work easier and simpler.

The current format of the Template links only to the Technology Level page. I have noted you were re-arranging the Technology articles. I wasn't sure if you had completed that work to the point where I could update the template to link to the correct pages. Where would you like the template linked to? I noted there is, for example, a TL-1, a TL:1-3, and an Ur-Tech article. Where is the correct place for the template to link?

- Tjoneslo (talk) 17:17, 13 January 2018 (EST)

Thomas, you mentioned a consistent standard. What is that consistent standard?

I lack your time as an administrator here, but I haven't noticed too many standards.

The TL pages are all arranged now, but need further development.

The TL pages should link to their appropriate 3-TL groupings called a Epoch. Technology_Level#Chronological_Periodization

SEE:

So TL should be linked by level. TL's 1, 2 , and 3 go to TL:1-3 and so on and so forth.

Each Technological Epoch has a name for its tech and various other names that mostly correlate with canon publications.
There were gasps o those were filled in. And not just by me. Rob and Marc have also named some of the TL groupings.
Some groupings such as TL-0 count as both a TL or an AGE as well as an EPOCH.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:24, 13 January 2018 (EST)

I've updated the Template:TL to link to the correct articles. This will help encourage the correct standards of use. Thanks. Tjoneslo (talk) 17:53, 13 January 2018 (EST)

Thanks. We really need to find a way to communicate better. We can do a better job of this.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:54, 13 January 2018 (EST)

Alasdair Morgan Gunn changed to Alasdair Morgan Dunn (2018)[edit]

I'm confused, why change the name of a page for a character I created?

I apologize. Restored.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:22, 4 February 2018 (EST)

Thank you! I very much appreciate the quick attention and restoration.

Also, I see the article has been marked as a "Stub." Any advice on how to improve as it is written mostly from my play notes?

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Alasdair_Morgan_Gunn

Sure, I'll throw down some categories and you can write your story.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:15, 4 February 2018 (EST)

Tech Level Comparison Chart/meta (2018)[edit]

You reversions to Tech Level Comparison Chart/meta are deleting content. Please stop.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 17:15, 5 May 2018 (EDT)

You are mistaken. I exercise my option to break ties between us when we disagree. Please stop.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:17, 5 May 2018 (EDT)

Neither your mission nor your self-appointed veto absolve you of your responsibility to be welcoming to our users and good example of how to resolve issues with other users.

Your response to Bruce's contributions was terrible example of how to handle a situation.
Please do not treat Traveller Wiki contributors this way.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 08:40, 6 May 2018 (EDT)

You are mistaken. I have been working with Bruce Grubb for some time now. You are passing judgment without knowing even a fraction of the facts.

I welcomed Bruce when he first showed up and made contact with him, not that it's your business... at all.
My veto over just you, as it turns out... never needed it for anyone else, comes from Marc Miller and FFE, not self appointed.
We are communicating outside of the wiki and your purview.
I really encourage you to become more informed and reserve judgement.
Your exclusive focus on internet and online communication is a poor strategy. There's more to life than screen time.
Making authentic connections with people via E-mail, voice, text, and in person is vastly superior.
Thank you for your contributions to the wiki.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:22, 6 May 2018 (EDT)

All of this is irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is your handling of the issue over the content of this page. I have received complaints about this and am addressing them. I have reverted the protections on the page. I'm assuming, in good faith, you will resolve without having to revert or protect the page again.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 12:51, 6 May 2018 (EDT)

Thomas, I appreciate your help, but it is not your place to do that.

You should leave things alone and let them resolve themselves as was intended by the wiki's owner.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 14:53, 6 May 2018 (EDT)

Hfiywitir Sector (2018)[edit]

None of the subsectors in Hfiywitir Sector are named or any details about the internal structure are kept there. This is why I removed the references. I'm trying to clean them up. Please remove them. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:17, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

There are projects there that you are unaware of. You are removing someone else's notes, a developer.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:19, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

Can you provide me with any more details? Tjoneslo (talk) 18:53, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

No. I respect other's privacy when they request it.

I do it in a different way than you, but I do it. I'm ok with asking and then taking no, but I think asking is ok.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:59, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

That is expected, please ask. Until the members of your secret cabal of Traveller developers come here to the wiki and agree to work under our procedures and policies their work can't be used as article sources. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:57, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

That is up to FFE and the wiki owner, not you. Already asked.

Citations are cited and reviewed.
They are not my secret cabal of Traveller developers. I just work with them and others per FFE.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:11, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

The wiki can not use published or unpublished sources of information or data without the explicit written permission from the copyright holders. That permission needs to be here in the wiki. That also is not up to me, or you. So if the members of your secret cabal of Traveller developers would like update articles, they need to participate here like everyone else. If they're not willing to do that, that's up to them. Your second-hand references to information the wiki does not have permission to publish breaks the rules of the wiki.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 08:11, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

Several things here.

1) Copyright is granted only to published things. If something hasn't been published it isn't copyrighted. Of course the catch-22 here is it it isn't published then how do you know about it? :-)

2) "Most data is not copyrightable in the U.S. and copyrights usually do not apply and are not enforceable" (Copyright and Ethical Use of Data; University of Minnesota)

3) Small brief quotes (like the above from the University of Minnesota's web page) can be used without explicit written permission as long as the reference is also provided. This Fair Use doesn't allow you quote huge blocks of text but a short paragraph will generally past muster.

4) Simply rewrite the information. Ideas cannot be copyrighted. Period. Trademarked maybe (and that is very iffy)

5) Anything to do with Traveller would technically fall under derivative work which means the main copyright holder, Mongoose Publishing, has final say.--BruceGrubb (talk) 20:19, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

Publishing includes writing a note in a private email, or Facebook post. Part of the rules around using external works is the Traveller Wiki is the CC-by-SA change how writings (which are copyrighted) can be republished. There are a significant number of writers who dislike the CC-by-SA and variants. So the other part of the rules is an attempt not to alienate these people and encourage contributors.

The main copyright holder for Traveller is Far Future Enterprises. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:57, 14 June 2018 (EDT)

Not a secret cabal. Explicit permission exists where needed. No rules broken.

Please be civil. No name calling or wild accusations, please.
Not my second hand references. That practice comes from your time.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:36, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

I've become attached to the term "Secret Cabal of Traveller Developers", and am going to spread it far and wide on social media. Oh, wait. I'm not on any social media platforms. Oh well. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:17, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

Enjoy. Such a status quo. Want me to buy you a sombrero? Happy birthday...

The Inner Circle is what it is... Curiously, Don always felt that you had quite the influence with it.
There's a Russian saying: "In every joke, there is a measure of truth." Look up the term "Holy Fool."

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:09, 22 May 2018 (EDT)

Layout Templates 1 (2018)[edit]

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/index.php?title=Maksim-Smelchak%2Flayout_templates1&type=revision&diff=373770&oldid=366524

So I'm confused about this change. I just want to make sure I've got my automatic update templates to match yours. Mine all use the "/" convention, rather than the "(xx)" convention. Tjoneslo (talk) 18:56, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

Seriously. What is the standard around this? I'm planning some article updates and would like to make sure they are correct. Tjoneslo (talk) 12:02, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

If what you mean is parentheses, then parentheses.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:46, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

Well that makes no sense, but it does answer the question. Thanks Tjoneslo (talk) 06:25, 3 June 2018 (EDT)

I always try to be open to other ideas, especially people who think out of the box.

What would make sense and why?
Is this just an aesthetic thing or do you have deeper reasons?
The story is designed to encompass different AAB article formats.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:06, 3 June 2018 (EDT)

This is completely about aesthetics: page layout and design. The challenge here is when I "think outside the box" it is demonstrated that I'm thinking too far outside the box. So I'm asking about what the limits to the page layouts really are. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:05, 3 June 2018 (EDT)

Ok. Like you, I follow the wiki admin pages / messages (MediaWiki) and I think that we're well within the capabilities of the engine.

Do you have concerns? (Of course, you do...)

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:09, 3 June 2018 (EDT)

Now this is you being deliberately obtuse. My question isn't about the mediawiki capabilities, but about your page design and aesthetics. How far outside the box can I work on the aesthetics of article layout and design, specifically the titles? Tjoneslo (talk) 19:41, 4 June 2018 (EDT)

No. I really don't get it, but I have left the M-drive stuff alone since you are doing something. It looks good and planned, whatever it is.

Do whatever you need to do. I'm not sure what you are communicating.
This is one of those situations where a voice call might help since written words sometimes fail.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:24, 4 June 2018 (EDT)

Well, lets go back to my original question. In your private layout template pages you use two (very similar) formats for the headers used on every article.

Do you feel I must use one of these two headers layouts? Or can I choose my own?
If the answer to the above is no, which of the two header layouts should I use?

- Tjoneslo (talk) 06:45, 5 June 2018 (EDT)

Please enjoy the ones you like best. Invent new ones if you like.

I think that there is room for variety.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 06:54, 5 June 2018 (EDT)

So if the standard is to use the ones I like best what's wrong with "History of the TML" as a second level title in Traveller Mailing List? Tjoneslo (talk) 07:21, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

OK. Sure.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:24, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

InfoboxShip names (2018)[edit]

I found ships have different ways of specifying the names in the Template:InfoboxShip, so I picked one. Are you going to update the rest of the articles? Tjoneslo (talk) 19:00, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

What do you mean exactly? I have been updating everything, one by one, day by day.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 01:18, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

Thank you for updating all the articles. It will make later updates much easier. Tjoneslo (talk) 23:15, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

Welcome. Thanks for that you do as well.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:11, 3 June 2018 (EDT)

It looks like you got through all the Ship article. Good Job. They look great. Tjoneslo (talk) 07:02, 11 June 2018 (EDT)

Thank you. Now, is the tedious updating of tags and what not... plus clean-up.

And I am coordinating with ron, and securing full permission from Elv and others that Jmattera put into place.
Do you have any advice or pointers with your much valued experience?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:07, 11 June 2018 (EDT)

Plural acronyms (2018)[edit]

I just noticed that you reverted the edit I made to bring plural acronyms in line with standard practice: http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/index.php?title=Technology_Level&type=revision&diff=362508&oldid=362486

After studying the matter a bit, I find that there isn't really one standard practice. But my edit was in line with the Wikipedia Manual of Style, the New York Times, and Steve Jackson Games (the only Traveller publisher that I know of that has a clear, public manual of style).

I invite discussion of the matter here: http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Talk:Manual_of_Style#Plural_acronyms

— Steve98052 (talk) 20:33, 19 June 2018 (EDT)

Change it if you like, Steve. No worries.

The Trav Wiki is not the other wiki, the NYT, or SJG. It's its own entity.
Would you please link to the SJG public manual?
Thanks!

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:36, 19 June 2018 (EDT)

By "change it if you like", do you mean that I've made a sufficient case to persuade you to indicate plural acronyms without apostrophes? Or that I should go ahead and change the Manual of Style here to follow some version of that style? Or re-revert the edit I made?

To see how much work it would be to change all instances of "TL's" to "TLs", I did a search for "TL's". The search returned about 4000 articles that seemed to mention "TL" without mentioning it with the apostrophe plural. But a Google search returned only 14 links, which is more plausible to fix without a whole lot of scripting.

Here's the overall Steve Jackson Games style guide: http://www.sjgames.com/general/guidelines/authors/style.html
This is the Steve Jackson Games style guide specific to GURPS Traveller: http://www.sjgames.com/general/guidelines/authors/traveller.html

— Steve98052 (talk) 23:59, 19 June 2018 (EDT)

Yes, please proceed. I am not convinced yet, but you seem to be onto something.

Thank you for your response and sharing of the links.
Who are the top 3 users?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:17, 20 June 2018 (EDT)

Space (2018)[edit]

I tinkered with the sentence of Space that I found clumsily worded. I suppose "mess" wasn't a polite word for the change comment; sorry if it was your wording. — Steve98052 (talk) 20:30, 22 June 2018 (EDT)

Don't worry about it. It's a combination of at least three people's work. You know at least two of us. Wayne and I.

Please, do your magic!

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 20:33, 22 June 2018 (EDT)

History of sector design (2018)[edit]

This table is full of inaccurate, and incomplete information, which is why I keep removing it.

Statement	Status	Reason	Your Response
Traveller started life as an RPG game without a setting or designated star charts.	Questionable	Book 3 contains a blank star chart (TAS Form 6). The Imperium board game (1977) is a precursor to the Imperium has a map	TBD
There was, as of that time, no star charts, maps,	Questionable	See previous	TBD
There was no Charted Space.	True		TBD
The first Traveller star charts were designed as simple dot maps.	False	Book 3 has a full hex map. Adventure 1: Kinnur has a full hex map of Regina Subsector. The Spinward Marches (1979) has a full sector with maps. Judges Guild published (1981) four sectors with maps.	TBD
Many early legacy publishers created a variety of settings, maps, and materials, some of which has never been officially placed within the OTU.	True		TBD
As computer programs grew more sophisticated, better data was created including the well-known Sunbane data set.	Questionable	This should state the where the Sunbane data originated	TBD
In 1984, the Atlas of the Imperium was published, which still sought to preserve the legacy data.	False	There is no evidence the data used for Atlas of the Imperium captured any information other than the existing GDW publications (Spinward Marches, Solomani Rim)	TDB
It developed into Sunbane.	False	The Genii data was independently generated by Digest Group Publications	TDB
In 1989, The data was uploaded to Genii.	True		TDB
In 1994, the files were hosted on the Sunbane FTP server.	Questionable	The files were hosted on Sunbane prior to 1994	TDB
Sunbane was eventually included as a date set for the early Galactic design software, which could create entire sectors in Galactic File Format.	True		TDB
Random generators began to be created in this period. The software is very clunky and dated by today’s standards.	True	Galactic is one of these generators, and the primary one for data generation. This section omits the work of HIWG to enhance and extend the Sunbane data.	TDB
For the most part, the legacy data was not overwritten much in this period.	False	The publication of TNE and T4 changed the underlying generation system. Official publications made significant to the legacy data.	TBD
H&E largely superseded Galactic although many still use that venerable software.	False	The two packages are used in equal amounts by various Traveller authors.	TBD
Many homegrown programs and web sites also exist to create star systems, sectors, and even galaxies.	True	... but useless. This should include some of them as I have in the legacy page	TDB
Many publishers overwrote the legacy data in this period, particularly T20 and MGT products.	Questionable	The time range between 4. and 5. overlap the whole of the Marc Miller's Taveller publication, which may need to be included here. Many of the third party Licensed publishers didn't overwrite any data. So "many" is questionable.	TDB
T5SS was created as an update to the previous data sets including the most common one, the Sunbane set.	True	The time range for 6. overlaps with 5., making statements in the two sections difficult to reconcile.	TBD
Several companies including T20 and MGT have slowly been upgrading parts of Charted Space.	Questionable	T20 was not publishing in 2007, so wasn't part of the upgrade process.	TDB
FFE oversees the entire process.	True		TBD
T5SS has updated the UWP's of thousands of worlds to be more consistent with current astrophysics knowledge.	Incomplete	T5SS has several goals for their updates. It would be better to just link to the full list	TDB
A T5SS manual is part of an effort to somewhat standardize the chaotic system.	Incomplete	This should include a link to the T5SS manual	TBD
FFE has re-canon-ized some of the legacy data in this current, ongoing period.	True		TBD

- Tjoneslo (talk) 13:49, 23 June 2018 (EDT)

I am working on a version that will reconcile your opinions with those of others who experienced it.

Some of them feel that your opinions are inaccurate. I have spoken with others looking for the middle ground.
Thanks for your feedback.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:47, 23 June 2018 (EDT)

New design for the Main Page (2018)[edit]

I noticed you wanted to add an image to the upper right of the main page. I removed it because I would like to better understand why. The Main page does not, on purpose, look like any other page in the wiki. It is supposed to serve a different purpose. As the landing page to the whole wiki, it's supposed to serve to redirect everyone to the various key parts of the wiki. Your updates to this have been invaluable.

The right column is supposed to be the news and current events around Traveller. It's not been updated recently because no one has taken the initiative to maintain it. The idea is that section is to be at the top of the page to indicate it's importance. By adding an image, this becomes a less important section of the page. In addition, the generic "red sunburst" image isn't the best thing to put there. We have several non-generic images we could be using (the logo in the upper left for example). Or if you wanted to rotate the images of the Traveller covers we have in the image library that would be another idea.

In any case, let's design the page to look really good rather than trying to copy all the other pages. The Main page is special, and we should keep it that way. [

- [User:Tjoneslo|Tjoneslo]] (talk) 19:32, 23 July 2018 (EDT)

I respect your thoughts and values.

I am soliciting for someone to maintain the parts you mentioned and the graphic helps it to look Traveller when I ask about. Keeps the theme.
Most social media pages from FB, Google Plus, etc. take a preview graphic from the page.
I also am working on the ship and vehicles sections.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:35, 23 July 2018 (EDT)

Golden Age Starships series (2018)[edit]

Thanks for the updates to these book. There are three versions of the Golden Age Starships series of books as published by Avenger Enterprises.

The Traveller D20 ones. These are the originals
The Traveller Hero ones. These have "HERO" in the titles.
The Mongoose Traveller one. These were reprinted in a different order than the other two.

The Golden Age Starships Compilation is for the Mongoose version of the GAS books. Unfortunately, you caught me in the middle of updating the ludography with the MGT version of the books. I'm going to need to undo some of your changes to make sure the books are now correct. Tjoneslo (talk) 07:08, 14 August 2018 (EDT)

Sure. I'll back off. Appreciate what you do.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:13, 14 August 2018 (EDT)

Well I was going to tell you I've gotten through all the GAS books, but you seem to have discovered that. Question: Why is it we're now shouting "EXTERNAL LINK" ? Tjoneslo (talk) 22:04, 14 August 2018 (EDT)

Because, it works.

What is your preference and why?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:09, 15 August 2018 (EDT)

SOMETHING LESS SHOUTY? WHY DO YOU NEED TO MAKE THIS ALL SHOUTY?

COMMENTARY & DATA ARTICLES

EXTERNAL LINK: TBD

REVIEWS

EXTERNAL LINK: TBD

Tjoneslo (talk) 07:38, 15 August 2018 (EDT)

Ok. Off to my day gig.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:44, 15 August 2018 (EDT)

What about this:

Commentary and Data articles

blog post by me last visited 12:41 18 July 2018 (EDT)
blog post by you last visited 12:41 18 July 2018 (EDT)

Reviews

review my me last visited 12:41 18 July 2018 (EDT)

Other articles

online reprint last visited 12:41 18 July 2018 (EDT)

Or since you really like using tables:

External Links for
Maksim-Smelchak
External Link	Description / Notes	Last visited
Blog post by me	Blog post by the author	13:27, 15 August 2018 (EDT)
Blog post by you	Blog Post by you	13:27, 15 August 2018 (EDT)

You can set the "Last Visited time" by using 5 tiles ~~~~~. No more yelling. Tjoneslo (talk) 13:27, 15 August 2018 (EDT)

Sure, Thomas.

Do you want the table or just open code?
I don't need the table at all.
And I really appreciate you helping to make things better.
Please leave the style code you want here and I'll insert it into all future entries.
Thanks for everything.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:34, 15 August 2018 (EDT)

; Commentary and Data articles
:# [link] last visited ~~~~~
; Reviews
:# [Link] last visited ~~~~~

Like this? Tjoneslo (talk) 06:36, 16 August 2018 (EDT)

Not much time now. Get back to you later.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:55, 16 August 2018 (EDT)

Firearms Source vs Weapons source (2018)[edit]

What is the relationship between the Firearms Source vs. Weapons Source categories?

What is the larger, overall plan for the other Ludography "Source" templates?

- Tjoneslo (talk) 17:38, 26 August 2018 (EDT)

I don't know. I hadn't thought of it.

I am mostly using the firearms for smallarms and the weapons for larger weapons.
There is certainly overlap.
What do you suggest?
By the way, thank you for all of your hard work and publication updates. Really appreciate it.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:47, 26 August 2018 (EDT)

Here is a suggestion.

I started with the "Departments" definitions from JTAS: Amber Zone, Contact, Ship's Locker, Editorial, TAS News Service, Bestiary, Variant, Feature Article, Deck Plans, Referee's Notes, Rules, Upgrades, Forms, History. Freelance Traveller has an expanded (and differently named) set of departments for their articles. I also worked through the Traveller Bibliography to see what organization Timothy Collinson used for the bibliography.

There are three uses for this grouping. First would be to append a "Source" to each of these for use as a category (or collection of categories) for the various books, magazines, and PDFs. This would be extending what you already started, codifying it. For example, [[Category: Ship Source]] or [[Category: Deck Plan Source]].

I have a design for enhancing the Table Of Contents part of the Ludography. The second use has these items as the Department for each entry in the Table of Contents. I understand "Department" may not be be best name, but I'm running out of categorization names.

Third would be to pick one as a primary, what the majority of the book is about or the focus of the publication and add that to the Infobox. Give each publication a broad category of what it is about.

Game Information
- Bibliography
- Editorial
- Fiction
- Glossary
- Illustration
  - Character Sketch
  - Diagram
  - Deck Plan
  - Map
- Index
- Review
- Science
Game Rule
- Adventure
  - Amber Zone
  - Campaign Setting
- Character Creation
- Design System
  - Ship Design
  - Vehicle Design
  - Weapon Design
  - World Design
- Form
- Tasks & Combat
- Variant Rule
Background
- Astrography
  - Location
  - Sector
  - World
- Bestiary
- Library Data
  - History
  - Alternate History
- People
  - Nobility
  - Personality
- Technology
  - Equipment
  - Ship
  - Vehicle
  - Weapon
- Sophont

Tjoneslo (talk) 07:25, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

It's a nice idea. Bravo.

The cureent scheme already has much of it.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:36, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

Encompassing current use was part of the idea. No sense in re-writing a large group of articles if the existing system works.

Did I miss anything?

Tjoneslo (talk) 21:05, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

Looks good.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 23:13, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

Fleet numbers. Plus assistance offered (2018)[edit]

Maksim, just a question about fleet numbers. I asked on travellerrpg.com about inconsistencies etc. Here it is:-

Imperial Navy Subsector Numbering Pic in MT Rebellion Sourcebook contains a pic (p26) of Squadron numbers in 3I. It has a few errors in it. Is there possibly and updated version, to show Squadrons of all sectors correctly? (I can find 3 x 213th Squadrons)

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39202

I like Major B`s advice. Have you any further clarification? i.e. Where do you refer?, is there a list, or do I go through subsector pages?

This is a video clip of my Subsector display program.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zu-HgoDSV_IZXHZCsMFh5kpCpEzCAz7D/view

I would like to automate the process later, I`m enjoying creating these PDFs at the moment. What a rush! 100 Subsectors and counting!

Thanks for keeping site up-do-date.

T5 Sector updates: D dwarf stars replaced with M Stars. Can I help? What is the fastest way (if any) of downloading all .sec files? Or tell me files you wish modifying.

My program used to download them, but things have changed over the years.

Thank you MaggotIISS (talk) 21:48, 17 September 2018 (EDT)

Sure. Let's put this on the forums here so that Thomas and others are included.

I am in the middle of Jewish holidays so I'm a little more quiet and less active right now.
Chat with you when I come off the fast and religious observances.
Will write more then, in a day or three...
Thanks.

- 07:50, 18 September 2018 (EDT)

Intro to MarcusWelby (2018)[edit]

I found your introduction to Marcus to be a little strong, hence off-putting. I realize the second two points are directly cribbed from the copyright statement at the bottom of the page. Lets try this instead:

Welcome to the Traveller Wiki <username>. Thank you for your edits to <article with link>. There are guidelines for articles. Contact Thomas or myself, or post a note on the Forum:Watercooler, if you have specific questions. Please read the Copyright policy. Thanks, and welcome again.

- <Your Sig>

As a note about administration, and you have followed this previously, we should not post a welcome note to a user until they've made an edit and verified they are not a spammer.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 11:53, 10 November 2018 (EST)

If I have invited the person over, I feel less worried.

Please feel free to edit my welcome to whatever you think it should be. I trust your judgment.
Thank you for your advice and assistance.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:05, 10 November 2018 (EST)

Well that's my introduction. I'm hoping you'll use it as a working example. Having different introductions add a human touch. Tjoneslo (talk) 08:53, 11 November 2018 (EST)

Thanks. Appreciate your advice.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:22, 11 November 2018 (EST)

Allegiance code template (2018)[edit]

Please leave the blank fields in the allegiance code template. It inserts null values into the cargo tables, which in turn makes the query processing easier. Also, don’t change the values to links. The cargo tables know they are pages and create the links when included in the articles. Thanks Tjoneslo (talk) 11:00, 14 November 2018 (EST)

Thanks for letting me know.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:12, 14 November 2018 (EST)

Martin Dougherty added to the Zarushagar worlds? (2018)[edit]

I am curious why you are adding Martin's name to the world articles in Zarushagar sector. Tjoneslo (talk) 18:17, 17 November 2018 (EST)

He sent material for those worlds that was added.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:15, 18 November 2018 (EST)

SophontData template status parameters (2018)[edit]

The reason for my updates to the templates in the various article is because I've not updated the underlying template and cargo database processing. So the template page doesn't correctly understand either the comma list or the links in the names. This, in some cases, causes the processing to generate incorrect results or put wrong or bad data into the cargo table. When I try to pull it back out (e.g. for the spreadsheet), it comes out wrong or blank. So I fixed the ones that were broken to get the spreadsheet created for you, Marc, and the T5SS list.

I understand we've not agreed upon what the status parameter should hold. I was just trying to clean up the minimum required settings to get the spreadsheet to work.

As I said above for the Allegiance Code template, the status is understood as a page link, so adding it as a link will break things. When I fix the template, per the discussion in the forum, I'll make sure the template shows the link (or links).

Thanks for your understanding. Tjoneslo (talk) 15:40, 15 November 2018 (EST)

Ok. Fair enough.

Thanks for your patience in explaining it to me.
Can we keep multiple statuses somehow?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:53, 15 November 2018 (EST)

I've define 5 non-overlapping statuses in the forum article. (Major Race, Minor Race, Minor Human Race, Uplifted Race, and Chimera). What are the other ones you wanted to keep and why? Tjoneslo (talk) 18:19, 17 November 2018 (EST)

I am working with Marc regarding the categories.

The main reason that I and others have logically expanded them is to be comprehensive and close the gaps. It makes sense that:

Minor Race
- Minor Human Race
- Minor Non-human Race

The minor major scheme only really defines FTL acquisition.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:14, 18 November 2018 (EST)

Except the definition of Minor Human Race has nothing to do with FTL acquisition or empire building (the usual split between minor and major). It is Human's distributed by the Ancients to different worlds. Its a weird outlier category, not part of the usual hierarchy. And, by extension, all Minor races are not human. Tjoneslo (talk) 09:43, 18 November 2018 (EST)

The minor part of minor human race is about FTL.

Their origin as distributed and geneered species has nothing to do with it. I had that straight from Loren. RIP.

You are processing very differently than conventional logic.

Yes, not all minor races are human, hence:

Minor Race
- Minor Human Race
- Minor Non-human Race

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:47, 18 November 2018 (EST)

2019 Posts[edit]

Imperial Sunbursts (2019)[edit]

Concerning the Imperial Sunburst Image Files:

Imperiumgrey-2 is just a slightly cleaned up version that I did in MS-Paint of the already existing Imperiumgrey sunburst that is already uploaded on the Wiki. I reduced the pixelation a little bit.
Sunburst (Regency) - I unfortunately do not know where I originally got this image. I have had it for some time, but I cannot specify the source.

- (UPDATE: I believe this image might simply be cropped from the cover of the Regency Sourcebook cover image included on the T⁵ CD-ROM (or other FFE CD-ROM).

Sunburst (Black & White) - Again, I unfortunately do not know where I originally got this image. I have had it for some time, but I cannot specify the source. All of the other similar images Sunburst (Black & Green), the two Sunburst (Black & Grey) files, and Sunburst (Black & Creme) are just versions of this file that I modified by coloring in the "white" parts of the image.

What do you want me to remove and/or change something?

- WHULorigan (talk) 08:36, 7 March 2019 (EST)

On a slightly different note, I am curious as to the purpose of having the Red IISS Sunburst in the upper right corner of all of the wiki articles. It seems to me that the IISS Sunburst should only go on articles that directly have something to do with the IISS; otherwise, it diminishes the value of the IISS symbol on those pages that are IISS pages. While it is true that there is no official color associated with the Imperial Sunburst, certain colors are official for certain Imperial organizations. Black Sunburst ought to be restricted to articles about the Imperial Army, Red Sunburst to IISS, Maroon Sunburst to ISM, and Golden Sunburst to Imperial Navy or articles dealing with Imperial offices, government, and the like (which is more or less the "default" color where no color is otherwise specified or required).

Is the IISS Sunburst on the wiki pages supposed to serve as a generic placeholder for potential future images? If so, might I suggest that a light grey Sunburst (or other image altogether) might be better so as to avoid lessening the value of the "Official" Sunburst images.

Also, on the Star Infoboxes, I would suggest the Imperiumgrey.jpg file: - - instead of the big IISS Sunburst (or maybe we can find/create some actual colored star images that relate to the spectrum of the particular star in the infobox).

- WHULorigan (talk) 08:36, 7 March 2019 (EST)

I changed the sunburst images in all of the Star Infoboxes to "Imperiumgrey-2.jpg". (I used a small version of the Army Sunburst for the two Black Holes).

- WHULorigan (talk) 13:39, 7 March 2019 (EST)

Ok. Thanks.

Wayne,

The main reason for the anchor image on the far right top of article pages is to present a Traveller symbol on social media, forums, and other internet pages, which often create a preview image based on what's on the page.
You are welcome to change the basic image and I like your line of thinking.
I hope that Thomas pipes in. I bet he has other great ideas.

I recommend reading these two articles:

Please map out other data about the symbol here:

Imperial Sunburst

It would be nice to see it broken out into an easy to read table.

Thank you for your hard work at the wiki.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:15, 7 March 2019 (EST)

User:Tjoneslo, what do you think?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:25, 7 March 2019 (EST)

I agree with Wayne. We should, when ever possible, replace the default placeholders with better items. Also, we should have a better way to distinguish the articles about the wiki, like the Traveller Ethos one above, from the general Library articles.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 02:41, 9 March 2019 (EST)

I changed the logo for articles about the wiki to a 100px version of "Wiki-Navy"

(at least as a temporary fix, if nothing else). I also uploaded "Imperiumgrey-3.jpg" as a larger and somewhat cleaner version of "Imperiumgrey-2.jpg". Perhaps this would be a better file (...at least for the meantime) as the default placeholder on the Library Data pages.

--WHULorigan (talk) 14:55, 9 March 2019 (EST)

Sounds great, Wayne. Looks great.

I mostly started that process with what we had at hand at the time that I was aware of.
Would you be willing to build out a table at Imperial Sunburst to indicate which colors mean what? Their associations?

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:55, 9 March 2019 (EST)

Distinguishing Articles (2019)[edit]

Also, we should have a better way to distinguish the articles about the wiki, like the Traveller Ethos one above, from the general Library articles.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 02:41, 9 March 2019 (EST)

Tjoneslo, what do you recommend?

We are already using MET, LEN, LE, etc.
Marc has reviewed that article and approved of it. Rob as well.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 19:56, 9 March 2019 (EST)

How to upload files? (2019)[edit]

Thanks for the Welcome message. Much appreciated. I'm trying to add an entry to the Paranoia Press list in the Publication Page (the Planetary Data Sheet form sheets, product Nr.02102, 1980) but :

I can not find any "upload file" button in the tools sidebar to upload the cover image. Where can I find it?
What's the recommended file size in px for images?

Both questions are probably just embarassing evidences of my utter lack of editing skills, but you assistance will be much appreciated . All the best

- Arturolorioli (talk) 06:47, 11 April 2019 (EDT)

It's on the bottom left under a command called Upload File.

Please see the following article: Article Image
There are limitations, especially copyright.
If you contact me at CotI, I can help you more. We usually exchange text numbers at that point and then I can usually provide you near real-time support as I have done for hundreds of other users.
Thank you for your help at the wiki.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:19, 11 April 2019 (EDT)

Thanks for the prompt answer. Alas, at the bottom of the left-sidebar of the page, under the heading "Tools", I can't see any "Upload File" command: the only commands displayed are "What Links Here", "Related Changes", "User Contributions", "Logs", "Special Pages", "Page Information" and "Page Values". As I read in the "Uploading Images" section of the "Article Image" page that only registered users can upload images, could it be possible that the system does not recognize me yet as a registered user? Or some other technical problem? Sorry for the trouble. All the best again.

- Arturolorioli (talk) 04:58, 13 April 2019 (EDT)

Yes, it appears only for registered users who are logged in. Try logging in. It can be a bit tricky, but it's doable.

No trouble at all.
I can also upload images for you if you prefer, but there are advantages to being able to do it oneself.
Thank you for your hard work.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:24, 13 April 2019 (EDT)

Arturolorioli, there are two levels to the registration process for users for the Traveller Wiki. You have completed the first part: answering the trivia question about Travelller. If you have any suggestions for new questions (with their answers) I would be grateful for any.

The second part, which you haven't completed yet, requires you to have a validated email address. The system asked you for one during the registration process. The wiki sends you an email to the address with a link you need to click. If you didn't ask to validate your email, go to This page, scroll to the bottom and click the button to validate. The email may have ended up in your spam folder somewhere.

Once you complete this stage, this unlocks the Upload File option, and a few other options. Tjoneslo (talk) 13:32, 13 April 2019 (EDT)

Yes! I registered my e-Mail address and now the "Upload file" command is visible. Thanks a lot for the timely and accurate assistance.

- Arturolorioli (talk) 07:28, 14 April 2019 (EDT)

Happy to hear it.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 00:18, 15 April 2019 (EDT)

Template InfoboxShip2 documentation (2019)[edit]

You wrote: I am fine with the non-alphabetical list as long as you remove the superfluous spaces. Thanks for your hard work.

First, leaving messages in the summary of an edit is a poor way to send a message. They are easily overlooked. And do not provide any way of leaving a response. This does not foster good communications.
Second, the spaces I put into the templates are not superfluous. The are there for a reason, they serve a specific and useful purpose. Therefore, they are important. A visual guide:
- With spaces: https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/index.php?title=P._F._Sloan_class_Fleet_Escort&oldid=518489
- Without spaces: https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/index.php?title=P._F._Sloan_class_Fleet_Escort&oldid=521603
This is a technique I learned while working with the Wikia team. For new users the MediaWiki markup language can be a challenge to get correct. Especially when dealing with complicated templates that require sub-templates and links. So anything that provides an immediate visual feedback about mistakes is important. It was a recommended practice there for template layout for exactly that reason.
This is now part of my workflow for creating templates, documentation for them, and any time I add them to an article. A quick, easy guide to show I've not made a simple mistake like leaving out a bracket or brace, Or adding one where it's not needed. Or any one of dozen other mistakes that can make things go wonky.
So I will continue to add the spaces to the templates, the documentation for the templates, and every time I add one to a page. In addition to my work flow to ensure correct and readable articles, I believe it aids the next generation of wiki editors in doing the same.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 15:55, 9 June 2019 (EDT)

Your methods are not without fault.

Thank you for taking some consideration of others.
I don't agree with you. The spaces serve little function other than preference.
I am not convinced of your opinions.
I have also worked with parts of the Wikia team, who do not use that practice.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:58, 9 June 2019 (EDT)

THOMAS: First, leaving messages in the summary of an edit is a poor way to send a message. They are easily overlooked. And do not provide any way of leaving a response. This does not foster good communications.

You could always just use modern communication methods other than email and forum posts.
That communication wasn't really for you anyway. Glad you read it though.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:15, 9 June 2019 (EDT)

Speaking of the next generation, would you please document that behind the scenes processes?

Such as how you are updating the main wiki processes that are not on the wiki.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:15, 9 June 2019 (EDT)

Then who was both messages directed at? They were posted on edits where you were deleting a big chunk of my hard work, which you seem to be thanking me for at the same time. So it was a little confusing.

- Tjoneslo (talk) 00:38, 10 June 2019 (EDT)

Someone who is not you. Don't be confused about such a simple matter.

You are welcome to replace that chunk of text if you are willing to make requested changes. Please.
I am better off spending time preserving and documenting Traveller than spending time in unproductive communication with you.
I appreciate what you do here, but will not be engaging your unproductive conversation attempts.
I also leave the door open to honestly, cooperatively, and collaboratively communicate in a format other than forums and email.
Be well, and please be courteous to others and be a gentlesophont.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:35, 10 June 2019 (EDT)

Phone issue (2019)[edit]

Hey Maks. I lost all my contacts due to a phone issue but now have a new phone. Send me a text so we can talk this weekend. Hope all is well. Greg.

Ok, can do. Thanks, friend.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:18, 7 August 2019 (EDT)

Government Articles need updates (2019)[edit]

Per the discussion Template_talk:SophontData#Government_links_.282019.29, I updated the Template:GovCode so the links pointed directly to the full articles rather than the Government/summary page. While confirming the links were now correct I noted that the full articles were mostly simply "No Information Yet Available", with incomplete page templates. By your request here is the list of articles that need a review:

Tjoneslo (talk) 17:40, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

Thank you.

The fan team and I can populate content. Thank you.
It all starts somewhere.

- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:47, 18 August 2019 (EDT)

Difference between revisions of "User talk:Maksim-Smelchak"