User talk:Maksim-Smelchak/Archive-2015

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Wiki Use Instructions (2015)[edit]

Late July / August 2015 Tasks Tjoneslo,

I am proceeding with the following two tasks per your suggestion.
Task #5 will be to update Spinward Marches Sector with the newer data.
Task #6 will be to update Solomani Rim Sector with the newer data.
Please advise if you have any special instructions or advice.
Thank you, Thomas. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:40, 29 July 2015 (EDT)

Things you can do (2015)[edit]

  1. Review the world articles in both Spinward Marches Sector and Solomani Rim Sector. Many of them are missing the world layout, the Trade classification/summaries, or both. Since these articles have more text in them, they should receive priority.
  2. Go back through all the worlds in Domain of Ilelish and replace the copied world summary with the templates we've created. The text in the articles no longer matches the text in Trade classification/summaries. Which is the entire point of using the templates.

Fair enough. I will do this after the following two tasks:
* Learn Gateway sector by creating it and reading and reviewing the materials.
* Learn Crucis Margon sector by creating it and reading and reviewing the materials.
Task #3 will to be to go back through ImDi and update all sectors to the new standards that have been largely set after my first pass there/ And all the work that previous folks like you have done.
Task #4 will be to update Verge sector to finish ImDi.
Task #5 will be to update Spinward Marches Sector with the newer data.
Task #6 will be to update Solomani Rim Sector with the newer data.
What tasks will you be performing during this period? If you are willing to share... Can I expect support as awesome as I have been receiving from you while performing those tasks?
Does that sound reasonable, Tjoneslo? Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 07:17, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
I am suggesting that task 5 and task 6 be moved to the top of your list. As the two most active sectors (in terms of both history and viewers), if we have a good, agreed upon format for the worlds, those sectors should be updated as soon as possible.
As I said earlier, Crucis Margin Sector and Gateway Sector are under active review. If you create it now, it is using out of date data and will be wrong. I suggest moving the create articles for those sectors down your list, to say 6. Even I don't have the updated data yet.
I don't have as much time to work on the articles as you do, but am continuing my slow progress through the Dagudashaag Sector worlds and updating them as I go. Tjoneslo (talk) 12:23, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
Thomas, I think you are amazing and do a near-impossible job. You have my respect and admiration. Thank you for sharing your plan. I will support you in your goals with this Wiki and appreciate your support of my goals.
I very much want to learn Gateway and Crucis Margin sectors. Inputting this data, reading the primary sources, and studying the books are the only way I think I can become adequately conversant with these areas. At the rate I work, I can knock these out in probably two to three weeks or less. I have dedicated the better part of my free time for a year through a New Years Resolution, 2015, to this project. I will find time to get to your requested items in time.
Whereas you are probably already a member of the T5SS Review for the Gateway and Crucis Margin, I am not. I have to apply and write a mini-essay to share my ideas with where the review could go and what could be done. That's why I need to study the materials and why I am willing to commit to updating them after the T5SS review for those sectors. Capiche?
I have already put in time on Solomani Rim sector per your suggestion. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:30, 6 July 2015 (EDT)

Creating new subsector pages (2015)[edit]

If you are creating new subsector pages, please also create the corresponding summary pages (e.g. Windfleet Subsector/summary). You may enter the text "No information available" in this page. The trade map generation process looks for these summary pages to upload information when it is run, but never creates them. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:20, 12 July 2015 (EDT)

I have now been doing this with summary pages. I have also been removing the synopsis header per your preference. Thank you for the advice, user: Tjoneslo. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:40, 22 July 2015 (EDT)

Alg Allegiance codes in UWP (2015)[edit]

In the documentation of the Template:InfoboxSubsector, if you set the alg= parameter to one of the major powers (Im, So, Hv, Zh, Kk, Va, As) as an indication of the majority owner of worlds in the subsector, the background color of the title bar is changed to match the that allegiance. The documentation includes the list of colors, and agrees with the color set used by the Traveller Map.
In general, if I'm changing template parameters for reasons you don't understand, check the template documentation (on the template page). It should explain the reason why parameters are set in specific ways. Tjoneslo (talk) 06:12, 12 July 2015 (EDT)

"World" template (2015)[edit]

In the world articles (e.g. Shiuan (world)) the name parameter to the {{UWP}} must be {{World|...}}. So for example, this is correct:

{{UWP|name= {{World|Shiuan|Daibei|Woomera|0820}} ... }}

For the rest of the page, you can only use the {{WorldS|...}} template. Otherwise it breaks a number of other templates in the page. You must have one (and only one) use of the {{World|...}} on a page. Every other world reference must use the {{WorldS|...}} template.

Tjoneslo (talk) 14:09, 12 June 2015 (EDT) Ok, Tjoneslo. Usually I just leave things alone, but I'll start trying to be conscious of which template is which. I may need to communicate with you further to get a better understanding. Thank you. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:32, 12 June 2015 (EDT)

I've read it over a few times and I think I have it now. UWP is World. Everything else is WorldS. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 15:33, 12 June 2015 (EDT)

Correct. There are a few exceptions, but that is the general rule. Tjoneslo (talk) 16:48, 12 June 2015 (EDT)
I'd be happy to learn more and really help you out if you like, Thomas. I'd like to be a real asset to you, the site, and the community. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 17:39, 12 June 2015 (EDT)

World Summary Paragraph (2015)[edit]

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure how the summary was written. I can guess, but would appreciate an explanation when you get a chance as I'm not sure. Please. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 01:31, 7 May 2015 (EDT)
The format is:
A <Remarks> world located in the <subsector link> of <sector link>. <world name link> is a member of <polity link>[, and serves as the capital|sector capital|subsector capital]. [The system hosts a Naval Base|Scout Base.]
The <Remarks> are a list of the Trade classification code names, based upon the codes in the world. For example, if the remarks for the world are "Lo Ni Po", the <remarks> should read "Low population, non-industrial, poor".
The text in the brackets "[]" should be included only if it applies to that world.
If you have specific questions about this, let me know.
Thank you for your work Tjoneslo (talk) 08:23, 7 May 2015 (EDT)

Thanks Thomas, I appreciate your time and patience and I get up to speed in assisting you with this colossal project. As an aside, I have been involved with all of the Wiki projects as an unregistered user and "lurker". I decided this year that I would register and do more than small-level grammar edits. I would try to be a major asset to the site. Thank you for helping me to fulfill this goal and really cooperate and collaborate with you and the others. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 08:30, 7 May 2015 (EDT)

Page Deletion (2015)[edit]

The correct way to delete pages is to include a {{delete}} template at the top of the page.

However, if you have made a mistake in the name of the page (spelling error, capitalization, etc) the correct way to fix this is to move the page. You, as a registered user, should have access to the move page. If you look at the menu bar at the top of the wiki page, just to the left of the search box is a down pointing arrow. Click on that, and it should show a sub-menu with "move" on it. Click on that, and it will take you to a Special:MovePage page. Where you can enter a new name for the page. And supply a reason.

The Move page is preferred because it keeps the page history which is important for historical purposes.

Tjoneslo (talk) 11:41, 5 February 2015 (EST)

Right on, Tjoneslo. Will use "Move" function. Thanks. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:46, 5 February 2015 (EST)

User Discussions & Comments (2016)[edit]

Detail template[edit]

At some point we should have a set of standards around the Detail template. Do you have an idea how much detail needs to be in an article to no longer need the template?
- Tjoneslo (talk) 23:24, 30 July 2016 (EDT)

I think setting mutually agreed upon standards would be great.
My rule of thumb now is it gets detail if it has:
  • No information yet available.
  • TBD
  • 1 to 2 simple sentences or less.
  • A fragment
Just starting ideas...
I also think that we should add all of the rules you've mentioned to the style guide: no game mechanics, etc. I haven't internalized that stuff yet, and it should be noted if we want to be comprehensive.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 23:29, 30 July 2016 (EDT)

Order of sources in the Sources template[edit]

I've noticed you re-order the sources in the Template:Sources in the world articles. Do you have a specific set of rules you are applying? Can you explain to the rest of us why sources should be in one specific order rather than another? Tjoneslo (talk) 15:05, 22 July 2015 (EDT)

I order the sources alphabetically, which just happens to coordinate pretty well with chronological introduction as well. It's not perfect, but it works so:
  • CT
    • GDW products go first in alphabetical order
    • Other publisher products go next with their "Mfg. Name" listed to aid the reader, especially for lesser-known products
  • GURPS
  • MT
  • Marc Miller's (T4)
  • Mongoose
  • TNE
Then the publications are ordered in terms of canonicity or publication format, which correlate pretty well too:
  • Books (canon)
  • Periodicals
  • Novels
  • Software
  • Fan Projects
  • Authors & Contributors
Again, I am not committed to that format, but it worked in the absence of a set format elsewhere. Much like the organizational lay-out topics and others things that I created and used to keep thing somewhat standardized, I did this to make it easier for programming-automation-bot guys like you to take advantage of.
Of the people who care about such things, the order of references should be chronological, in order of publication. The reason is this establishes the order precedence for canon. That is, later published products override the earlier published ones, so knowing this ordering is important. This would apply for the non-canon as well as canon publications. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:47, 22 July 2015 (EDT)
Hey Tjoneslo AKA Thomas, would you please be a little more direct if this means you want me to do things a certain way? I'd really like to be clear what your standard is and whether it's important to you that I follow it. I'm not 100% on what this means right now. Trying to be a good member of the community. Thanks for some of your valuable time. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:06, 23 July 2015 (EDT)
I'm being vague because I'm trying to come to a consensus about the correct way of doing this. I'm not sure I can describe to someone else what alphabetical order means in a way that is consistent with your definition. I want to find something that can be described in one or two sentences in the Manual of Style. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:01, 23 July 2015 (EDT)
Ok. Thanks. Just know that I am trying to act in good faith and work cooperatively with you. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 21:54, 23 July 2015 (EDT)
I also input data with the idea of later expansion. That's why I'd rather spend a few more bytes up front and have multiple entries with the UWP time tags such as Uc=, Ur=, Um=, U0=, U1=, U2=, etc. I've worked on all of the Star Trek Wikis and spending a few more bytes to later have the expansion categories ready greatly saves work later. but, the only way to figure out what you need in the later long term is to experiment with it in the present. For instance, I hope to use the T5 Nobility tags in the near future with text replacement program as you've designed for so much of eh trade codes, bases, etc. I have also experimented with the T5 cultural codes. At any rate, I am thinking in the long-term much of the time.
The only template I would tell you to avoid doing this are the {{LEN}} and {{LE}} templates. The parameters are positional and there is a limited number of them. If you include empty parameters (e.g. {{LEN||Category 1||Category2||}}, you can add too many empty parameters and lose the categories at the end of list. That is, the last category in the list may not be included, especially if the person adding new categories to the end of the list doesn't understand the empty parameters need to be removed. Tjoneslo (talk) 20:47, 22 July 2015 (EDT)
By template, what I really mean is organizational standards, I am avoiding modifying coding templates right now although I have been studying it and have made very minor modifications to many. I will not touch "LE" or "LEN" at all. All of the library templates scare me since I have no idea how they integrate with all of the other parts of the site even after having read them through, file, discussion, and the rest of it. If I even had an inkling to do so, I'd want to consult with you first since you have the history and experience to have some idea of those long-range implications. Thanks for the advice and direction. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:06, 23 July 2015 (EDT)
Organizational standards for the LE and LEN templates is what I'm referring to. Your organizational standards seems to require adding extra separators (the vertical bars like this '|') to these templates. I'm saying where you use these templates not to add these extra separators. Tjoneslo (talk) 21:01, 23 July 2015 (EDT)


As far as arguing one way or another, I'm not interested in that. I just want to do and get things done. If you set a different format, I'll do that. The important part for me is to produce.
I am 100% fine with any of this being taken to discussion, CotI or wherever. I just wanted to get things done while committees deliberated. That's why I actively communicate with you, ask questions, and seek direction. I read most of the files, templates, discussions, etc. but there is enough out there that's pretty hard to absorb it all in just a few months. You have a very added advantage over me of having been with the Wiki here for most or all of its existence.
In the absence of a set order or tradition, I usually go with alphabetical order. It's easy for others to follow or duplicate it.
Always happy to hear from you, Thomas. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:39, 22 July 2015 (EDT)

Sector Order[edit]

Hi Thomas, I mostly do it because I've done so many and it's much easier to quickly review them in that order. When the text is lumped the average eye cannot absorb it quickly and a copy & paste cannot pick it up quickly.
The general order I use (...although I'm open to other ideas) is:
  1. XY Coordinates (Z, if we had it)
  2. Name, capital, domain (alphabetical order)
  3. Neighboring sectors with a space
  4. Control-percentages
  5. True files
I'm not stuck on that order. But, I have done almost 100 sectors so it's quicker... Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 16:39, 22 July 2015 (EDT)

UWP Summary in the subsector pages (2015)[edit]

I note that you have started adding the T5 UWP entries to some of the Subsector pages. E.g. Cinder Subsector. The reason we put the data subpages in (e.g. Gateway Sector/data was because the preformatted data looked terrible, and was useful to only a very few readers. Can I get you to do the same for the subsector articles? That is move the text into a subpage (e.g. Cinder Subsector/layout data, then poke me to add something to the InfoboxSubsector to include a link to the specific subpage. Tjoneslo (talk) 14:16, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

Yes. So you don't want those to be located on the subsector pages? I just want to confirm that. I can do that. In that case, why not just leave them on the sector layout data pages? And forego the subsector layout data pages? Happy to comply either way. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 14:19, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

MegaTraveller Journal (2015)[edit]

Hi again.

I noticed you've been putting back 'Periodical' in front of Source entries for the MegaTraveller Journal. In spite of its name it isn't a magazine. DGP originally sold subscriptions but stopped doing so very quickly and actually say in the editorial section of one of them that it isn't a periodical, it's more a semi-regular publication of resources. That's why I was removing the Periodical reference. OGuutan (talk) 12:26, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

Thanks for the note, Peter. I thought it was periodical and will stop marking it as such. Appreciate the assist. What is it then? A book? Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:28, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

It has a magazine style format, in that it has a cover of slightly thicker paper like the later Travellers' Digest Magazines. I think in #1 they saw it as a replacement for Travellers' Digest Magazine, but in the 'Helm Report' section of #2, they say;

"As of issue number three, The MegaTraveller Journal will be increasing to a 104 page product. Essentially this makes the Journal an anthology product, rather than a straight magazine. We can bring you a wider variety of more in-depth articles in each issue. With this change we will also be going to an irregular release schedule, but we are shooting for a minimum of two issues per year." and

"We will be discontinuing subscriptions to the Journal, as it's no longer really a 'magazine'."

They stopped publication completely after Issue 4, along with any further MegaTraveller material, to supposedly concentrate on their own game system but this never got released. Issue 4 was really a publication of a self contained adventure "Lords of Thunder" with a few historical items thrown in at the end of the production run. So all 4 "issues" were completely different in character. OGuutan (talk) 12:39, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

Thank you, Peter. Really appreciate your help. I have made a half a dozen correction in preview mode to avoid that error. Thank you again! Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:42, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
And, hey, if you feel like expanding your horizons and doing other kinds of edits, there is plenty of room for world entry and other types of tasks. I'd be happy to help get you going. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 12:42, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

First, I'm going to finish going through all the items I have on my bookshelves to get the pages on Published Items straight, then I'll start thinking about some data entry type stuff. As I've been going through I've noticed a few areas that haven't really been touched - but I also wondered about doing some work on the various Year entries and associated dates. I'll see. Still a fair number of magazines to do! OGuutan (talk) 12:57, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

Thanks, mate! Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 13:33, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

People/Personage[edit]

Hi, I noticed you created the Category:Personage. Is there a particular difference you envisage for this rather than Category:People and subcategories from that? OGuutan (talk) 14:04, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

Personage is more for VIP's than regular people. It's an older term. That's how I envisage it. Thanks for all of your hard work on the Wiki, Peter. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 14:11, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

OK. So that would include entries in things like Category:Government Leaders, Category:Military Leaders, Category:Imperial Nobles and Category:Emperors of the Third Imperium that are current subcategories of Category:People? OGuutan (talk) 15:08, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

Yes. Personage is like [people, but more specific. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 09:46, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

QUESTION: I had a thought while I was looking at the World write-up for Rhylanor. I added Leonard Stephanos Kirgashii under the Imperial High (Landed) Nobility section of the Rhylanor page that notes that it contains the fiefdom of a Subsector Duke. But then I realized that any particular noble will only be valid for a particular range of dates or milieu, depending on who has the title at any given time. So what if, for the world and/or subsector pages that note the presence of a Subsector Duke on the Subsector Capital, there was simply a link entitled (for example) "This world is the fiefdom of a subsector duke; His Grace The Duke of Regina" where The Duke of Regina is page redirect that lists any/all known Subsector Dukes for that title (in this example, the Dukes of Regina) and their dates? So the The Duke of Regina page might have Norris Aella Aledon listed, as well as his father William before him (with their dates), the The Duke of Rhylanor page might have "ca 620" listed for Arbellatra Alkhalikoi and "? - 1120+" listed for Leonard Stephanos Kirgashii, etc. --WHULorigan (talk) 11:12, 16 March 2016 (EDT)

That's a good idea, Wayne. I didn't implement any names. The generic nobility template just generates the titles from the code e.g. BEf. Someone else started putting specific names in.
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:17, 16 March 2016 (EDT)
That would be me, after seeing some of the signature blocks on COTI. Ssteve (talk) 12:19, 16 March 2016 (EDT)
Another thought I had is that there might be an additional section or two under the Imperial High (Landed) Nobility heading entitled Resident Honor & Ceremonial/Rank Nobility and/or Resident Local Nobility that could be utilized as needed when one wished to note local or other nobles living on-world who are not necessarily the High/Landed Nobles of the world defined by the T5 Noble Extension.
Another good idea, Wayne. I'm not sure how it could be implemented, but it's a good idea.
Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:42, 16 March 2016 (EDT)

Noble Titles (2015)[edit]


In actuality, I am Archduke of the Domain of Sol, in addition to many other titles. You are aware that you can change your signature on the preferences page. So you can sign your posts with your more accurate titles. Tjoneslo (talk) 10:15, 3 March 2015 (EST)

Awesome, Tjoneslo! Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 10:23, 3 March 2015 (EST)
  • I do not know if this would be helpful to you, Ssteve, or anyone else working with Noble Titles and/or the COTI Patent-Card assignments, but I wanted to make you aware of the following google-doc by Bloo from COTI (if you aren't already). It is freely editable by anyone:
Traveller Patents of Nobility:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mRGZE7RZZJrchoaudEX9-wXeZTTJves6ohYiigK2STU/edit#gid=0
The tabs at the bottom include a page that lists all known Knightly Orders, as well as all of the known T5/COTI Noble Patent Card holders (by Domain), who they belong to, and any "Character Name" to which they have been assigned.--WHULorigan (talk) 13:16, 18 March 2016 (EDT)

  • There are currently two Categories for Nobility, "Category:Nobility" and "Category:Imperial Nobles", that do not appear to have much differentiation. Should they be merged?
--WHULorigan (talk) 10:33, 6 February 2017 (EST)

Let's bring it up with Thomas in the forums, please. He should be included.
I think it's a good idea.
- Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 11:35, 6 February 2017 (EST)

Generated Summary Pages (2015)[edit]

The summary pages for sectors and subsectors (e.g. Ilelish Sector/summary) are automatically generated by the trade map generation process, and automatically updated when that process is run. Any changes to the page will be overwritten when it is run again.

The sector data base (e.g. Ilelish Sector/data) is also automatically generated and will be overwritten. The third piece is the PDF trade maps (e.g. File:Ilelish Sector.pdf).

I was also looking at having the system generate the tables from the data like what your are doing with the layout data (e.g. Zarushagar Sector/layout data) but haven't completed that work, and, again was going to automatically update them. Which may overwrite your work. Tjoneslo (talk) 22:24, 18 June 2015 (EDT)

Sorry, I did not recall that when I did it. Thank you for the reminder. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:41, 18 June 2015 (EDT)
Oh, before you over write anything, please let me know and I'll transfer it all to a file/layout data area. If there is anything else I can do to make your job easier, please let me know. Since, I fill up the history logs, I have offered to copy and paste historical logs into a spreadsheet or however you record things to save your carpal tunnel. I'd like to be an asset to you and the site. Thank you for all of your help. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 22:44, 18 June 2015 (EDT)

Traveller Game Eras & Editions (1977-2015)[edit]

The Traveller Historical Eras (Background Settings) include:

Traveller Game Eras & Editions (1977-2015)
Setting Dates Era Name (Milieu) Primary Setting Events Game Name Game Edition Pub. Date
(-2404 to -2203) Interstellar Wars First Imperium (Ziru Sirka) & Interstellar Wars GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars 06th Edition 2002
(-2204 to -1776) Rule of Man Collapse of First Imperium & Rule of Man (Second Imperium) GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars 06th Edition 2002
(-1775 to 0) Long Night Collapse of Second Imperium & Long Night Marc Miller's Traveller 04th Edition 1996
(-25 to 75) Milieu 0 Third Imperium Founding & Sylean Federation Marc Miller's Traveller 04th Edition 1996
(985 to 1002) Milieu 990 Third Imperium & Solomani Rim War Traveller D20 7th Edition 1977
(1100 to 1117) Milieu 1116 Third Imperium Base (Original) Setting & Fifth Frontier War Classic Traveller & Traveller5 (T5) 01st Edition 1977
(1116 to 1130) Milieu 1120 GURPS Traveller: Alternate Setting (Timeline with no Rebellion) GURPS Traveller 05th edition 1998
(1117 to 1130) Rebellion Collapse of Third Imperium (Rebellion) & Regency MegaTraveller 02nd Edition 1986
(1190 to 1220) New Era Reformation Coalition & Virus/New Era Traveller: The New Era 03rd Edition 1992
(1220's to 1249+) Fourth Imperium Fourth Imperium Traveller: The New Era 03rd Edition 1992
(1221 to 1249) Milieu 1248 Fourth Imperium Traveller: The New Era 08th Edition 2006
(1250+) Galaxiad The Galaxiad Traveller5 or T5 12th edition 2015+ (Future)

Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 18:38, 29 January 2015 (EST)

My first thought is to put this table at the top of the Settings page as a quick summary, then using the rest of the text on the page to expand the definitions. Tjoneslo (talk) 19:50, 29 January 2015 (EST)

Hi Tjoneslo, would you please copy and paste (place) the table where you think where you think it would be most appropriate? Please feel free to modify/edit the table if you have anything to add to it. Thanks for all of your feedback and help! With best regards, M. Maksim-Smelchak (talk) 14:20, 1 February 2015 (EST)

Limitation on the LE and LEN templates (2015)[edit]

The {{LE}} and {{LEN}} template have a limit of 5 entries. If you add a new entry to one of these templates, the last entry is no longer included as a category on the page. For example, Mindahm (world), where you just added the "Mining worlds", the addition made the "Binary Star System" category no longer appear on the page.


If you need to add more than 5 categories to a page, please add them the old fashioned way, using a category link: [[Category: Mining worlds]] under the {{LEN}} template. Each alone on a single line. This follows the Wikipedia model.